Old School - Nethack

update: got to the Quest for the first time - got instantly killed by a swarm of ogres. Level 11 Barbarian - 32,167 points and 3,680 gold, after 10273 moves.

just had my first real experience. died in a really pathetic battle with a coyote, level 2. posting this for the lols, pretty much.

FUN!

it's crazy how you just get consistently better over time until you're blowing through those early levels. if you keep playing, zs, u'll look back at that post and be shocked that a coyote killed u.

Is permadeath actual permadeath or can you back up your save file? Seem to recall doing that back when I played this at school, but also the game seems to have moved on a whole lot since then. Then being nearly 25 YEARS AGO.

Think I was probably playing a pre 3.0 variant.

Yeah, I'm up to Lvl 4 now, finally found a shop. newbquestion - I understand that I have to stand on the objects in order for the shopkeeper to give me a price and tell me what it is. Is there any way to avoid picking it up automatically, other than to turn Autopickup off? I'm going one tile at a time, picking up whatever he tries to sell me and then dropping it immediately.

Wow Mordy you're going fast it took me months to get to the quest

i've played a few roguelike games before (most recently last year's hybrid zelda/roguelike binding of isaac which was so good) so i kinda have a feeling for them i think, even tho i've never actually played nethack before.

xxp game deletes save when u die, and a lot of ppl (including me) consider circumventing that like cheating (and unsatisfying)

i think save state finality makes so many games better. i played a MOO until 2010 (!) primarily bc it had full looting and permanent death. all good roguelikes. civilization becomes such a better game when you don't save/reload. it commits you so much more to your decisions (and disappointment/triumph).

nethack has cast a spell on me btw. there's something so mechanistically satisfying about playing it, btw - i understand why u remember it as the numbers + letters instead of actual characters, but even with a tileset it's clear how close it is to being just a complex sort of logic problem. u have to tease out what all the monsters/pieces do, you have to pick up strategies on developing your character. make sure to upgrade your AC in lvls 5-9, u can get good armor off gnomes, dwarves, elves, etc, have identification system worked out, have good religious system worked out, make sure you're consistently getting better + finding more solutions for different pieces of the problem.

i just find that i like to see something somewhat interesting while i'm doing this (tileset) and it helps my memory to distinguish between u W p AA nn creatures.

Is there any way to avoid picking it up automatically, other than to turn Autopickup off?

Nope, but just turn off Autopickup when you go into the stores and turn it back on when you leave.

In your defaults you can set what things Autopickup will pick up, though. Like for my default I told it to never autopickup Weapons, Armor, Chests, Rocks, or Corpses/Food.

fucking tengu

+ his fucking summon monster buddies scroll

i finally got a unicorn horn too. meh. i think i'm done for tnite or my wife is going to kill me. now off to dream of dragging corpses up three flights of dungeon to sacrifice them at an altar to try to convert the altar, win favor with my deity, and hopeful get a weapon that'll be effective. or finding some gloves so i can pick up that cockatrice corpse and swing it around my head

My favorite roguelike is Brogue. It's really different from the kitchen-sink approach to populating the world and creating characters that DCSS uses. Basically almost every monster in the game has a specific niche and tactics, the dungeon has environmental hazards like swamp gas and deep water, and your character's abilities depend entirely on the equipment you find and the choices you make with your scrolls of enchantment. Sort of a middle ground between the evil-DM-simulation of Nethack and the puzzle-dungeon approach of Desktop Dungeons.

Anyway just go try it it's fun and shiny.

Do shops ever restock inventory?

No

Thx. Re mobile nethack, too tedious for me. Might be better if you're willing to learn all commands thru swipes

i wish there was a good android roguelike, i would never have to worry about a book for the bus again. yes that would be sad.

did you find the shortcut for autopickup on/off? it's less of a big deal once you realise it's one key maybe? though i thought only noobs used autopickup anyway etc etc

fighting temptation to start playing this again

shift+@, but i've gotta hit it whenever i start a new game. essential tho.

still don't get why you would play nethack in 2012 when dungeon crawl exists. much better game imo

maybe its just because i could never beat nethack though, whereas i've won DCSS a few times

anyone else been messing with the xbox version of semi-roguelike platformer spelunky? i know it came out for pc a zillion years ago (for free) but it feels way more fun with a controller. (tho i'm not sure if the pc version has controller support, it probably does).

nethack is a lot of fun specifically bc of how challenging it is

that said, i've never played dungeon crawl so idk it might very well be better + more fun in every way!

despite what people say, i think DCSS is no harder than nethack, or at least it's better at rewarding logical thinking and caution. (this is also why i think it's a better game). i've had a lot of nethack deaths that seemed completely unavoidable (enemy randomly has a wand of death or whatever) whereas every time i've died in the mid-to-late game in DCSS, it was immediately obvious what i did wrong.

also, the hell levels in DCSS are a way more terrifying experience than should be possible in a game with ascii graphics.

both games are pretty similar in structure though, in that the early game is about survival, then once you get over that hump you can kind of just cruise through the midgame except for some challenging 'boss' maps, then the final sequence is beyond insane

here's a general strategy question about nethack:

i've found that if i take the early levels really slowly i can level up earlier on. i know the monsters that appear are something like dungeon level + character level / 2, so has anyone found whether it's good to move slower to build up character levels (and hp) while keeping a low dungeon level, or if you do want to move with some speed so that you can get better equipment before your character level alone throws you against more difficult monsters?

i always used to check each level as thoroughly as possible but that's more a general personality issue than a strategy

there's one early-game strategy specifically that involves reaching gnometown at level one, it sounds kind of lame though

i've also found that i greatly prefer being neutral or chaotic so that i can kill all those gnomes. good xp, decent early equipment from the dwarves, etc.

the gnome equipment is the sort of stuff you find yourself annoyed if you're still hanging on to it through the midgame i think? also i swear i remember doing a great deal of gnome murder with lawful characters. gnome and dwarf characters they're friendly too. i thought. i don't know.

i think u do need a decent set of armor for the midgame, AC around 0 or less from armor, boots, helm, cloak, gloves, shield, etc can be good.

nethack AC drops to way less than you might be thinking if you're still thinking in terms of d&d fyi

like a 'good' ac is ~ -20, if it is the focus of a strategy ppl will go for ~ -40

I'd definitely recommend the patient approach, assuming you have enough food that hunger's not a concern. Having enough hit-points is what lets you go toe-to-toe with the monsters.

+1 on Brogue. The prettiest ASCII game out there, super easy Levels 1-3, impossible Levels 8+. The auto play function is one of the coolest things ever

Gonna give Binding of Isaac a shot, Mordy try ADOM one day

Oh yah and relate heroic tragedies I love that shit

Best I ever did. Made it back down to the quest, mostly because early on I rubbed a lamp, got a wish, and asked for gray dragon scale mail (someone suggested it). Did blazingly well. Finally, tho, got down to a floor just filled with monsters. I made it passed them once, but I kept tempting fate by going back into the room/floor (I wanted to backtrack a bit) and ultimately they killed me. I think a leocrotta did the actual kill.

I ended up piously aligned, poison resistant (Barbarian), magic-protected (from the armor), telepathic (from an amulet), invisible (desperately quaffing potions to stave off death), fast (idk), fixed abilities (idk), lucky (not lucky enough apparently), and dead. I killed 242 creatures including a chickatrice (had gloves but it didn't leave a corpse), a doppelganger (that was weird), a long worm (got his tooth, but never got an enchant weapon scroll - I was actually backtracking to hit up a scroll store so I could enchant it), and a gelatinous cube (yeah, I ate it, so what?).

I used 1 wish, and didn't wish for any artifacts.

I would tell you my score, but every other game my application crashes before displaying my score and so. Ya know. Too bad.

in the beginning you care about the names u give your characters. in case this is the one that makes it to the end, u want to remember them w/ an appropriately heroic name. but tonight, the shopkeeper shouted out to my dwarven valkyrie: "Velkommen, Lawfucker! Welcome to Ymla's hardware store!"

Lawfucker is pretty good. Chickum McMagnets was mine for a while

so i played a bunch last night. had a few very disappointing encounters, but my final one of the night (which began at 10ish and which I saved and quit at 1 since i had to sleep) has been a smashing success. so successful in fact that i'm worried about playing more w/out devoting my full attention bc i don't want to lose my char.

anyway, L13 dwarven valkyrie.

a couple early things went right that made a big difference. i got Excalibur from dipping my longsword the moment i hit L5, and shortly thereafter found a magic marker, a cloak of displacement (which is tremendous), +2 pair of gauntlets of dexterity, picked up an amulet of reflection from Soboken (which i solved for the first time), a bag of holding just lying on the dungeon floor, and TWO unicorn horns. now i'm a few floors past the Quest (got to level that had tons of water before I quit for the night), though I haven't been able to play the Quest yet bc it says I'm not high enough level. i think at L14 i can do it, tho, and the valkyrie quest item looks tremendous.

i'm pretty much strong enough at this point that i can solo dragons (i actually got some red dragon mail that i'm wondering if i should enchant since i'm not sure if i have fire protection yet - obv w/ amulet of reflection what i really want is grey dragon mail for the magic protection). a couple concerns tho: the only altar i've ever found was in minetown and it was no coaligned so i couldn't sacrifice on it. not a huge biggie (esp since i already have an endgame weapon) but it has come up as a problem a few times - particular re blessing water to get holy water (so i can dip some stuff - including a cursed tanning kit i got off bones). i did briefly find another unprotected altar, but i got to it by hitting a level teleport and then once i saw it, my very next step hit another level teleport and i haven't seen it again.

also - practically no stores! i've got something like 20k gold sitting in my bag of holding (along with a slew of identified wands and scrolls) and i've only run into 2 stores outside Minetown, and all the Minetown stores and those stores had basically nothing worth buying. i wonder if i can possibly run into anymore stores this far down in the dungeon. if not, maybe i should just stash all my gold somewhere. idk. i've never gotten this far, so if you guys have any advice, i'm very receptive. i'd hate for my char to die, but i know that i'm not ready for Gehinnim and below (for one, i should probably find a ring of levitation in the very near future).

you're hitting the same 'remember these two things from spoilers' bit that i always did (dipping a longsword, wishing for gray scale mail) so probably beyond any point where i can offer actual advice

My eyes are hazy and I read "ring of levitation" as "ring of television". Sounds like you've got lots of things to do before Gehennom?

i guess- i'm at the point in the game where i don't know what happens next, and far down enough where the general netbook advice doesn't really help. i've killed 2 liches + a mind flayer (elbereth + wands of striking/fire/lightning), and i've got a ton of resistances, tho i'm not positive which ones i'm missing. i'm putting my ascension kit together tho!

q: is the best use for my blank scrolls + magic markers making enchant armor scrolls?

Ohhhh you're doing Elbereth? Oh my god Nethack is the cruelest. Make sure you bless that magic marker iirc

elbereth is some straight up bullshit imo, one of the things i never liked about nethack was having 'cheats' built into the game like that which required spoilers

especially since you pretty much have to use them to have a chance

I'd forgotten about Elbereth that is straight up irritating but yeah I used it on my winning character too

i tried to resist using it until i learned about it in game somehow, but when facing off against a lich + mind slayer, having gotten farther along than ever before, i sac'd my principles on the altar of winning. i don't regret it.

Have a new laptop, just downloaded the new(est) Nethack and had no idea. Thanks guys!

No shopkeepers: this doesn't feel right. At all.

https://cohost.org/morayati/post/838182-there-s-also-code-in

That made me want to go look at the Nethack code on Github again. It's always a bit fun, because everything's quite explicit, not hidden behind layers of abstraction like it tends to be in enterprise software.
I still haven't really tried to get into this game, but the detail of this comment in the code really appeals to me:

                 * 3.7:  New moon is no longer overridden by carrying a
                 * lizard corpse.  Having the moon's impact on terrestrial
                 * activity be affected by carrying a dead critter felt
                 * silly.
                 *
                 * That behavior dated to when there were no corpse objects
                 * yet; "dead lizard" was a distinct item.  With a lizard
                 * corpse, hero can eat it to survive petrification and
                 * probably retain a partly eaten corpse for future use.
                 *
                 * Maintaining foodless conduct during a new moon might
                 * become a little harder.  Clearing out cockatrice nests
                 * could become quite a bit harder.