no boys allowed in the room!!!!

I've traveled alone but never gone on actual vacation alone. I don't know if I would. Not because I wouldn't want to (I like doing things alone, generally) but because of time/resources. Plus, we haven't gone on that many vacations together thanks to finances and then law school and then introductory levels of vacation time.

Meaning that going on vacation together is still enough of a novelty that I don't want to not do that.

I like the idea of vacationing alone, however. Maybe some day.

ugh, i am so so sorry about your body-policing moms - it's bad enough that too many acquaintances and random strangers do it, but your own mother? I feel embarrassedly fortunate in this regard in that my mom always thinks i look nice when i put nominal effort into my appearance.

xp - i can vouch that it helps to have a partner who needs extended periods of alone time too

Ugh my dad is pretty terrible about just saying whatever comes into his head which often includes remarks about people's looks (it's a weird habit, he'll also just walk around saying out loud the names of stores and signs he sees and 50% of the time make some dad-pun on them). So after 18 months of not seeing my parents I was staying with them and my dad was constantly making comments about every female presenter on tv, all appearance-related so it took me about 10 mins to flip. He commented 'why is she wearing so much make-up?' and I was all BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU JUST SIT THERE CRITICISING EVERY PORE OF THEIR BODY EVERY MINUTE and to his credit he did shut up for a bit after that.

thankful (well not really thankful) that my mom focuses on hair policing.

She's all passive aggressive about it, like "so that's what you're doing with your hair these days!"

When my mom saw my most recent haircut she said, "So you're back to the Ramona Quimby." <3

here is a topic i relate to

which brings me to an interesting point!

yesterday someone told me "i like what you've done with your hair" -- i hadn't seen him for a while, and he doesn't know me all that well, and i am not easy to get to know ANYway but relations with him have been strained more often than not. and he says, "i like what you've done with your hair."

huh?

I don't know how to navigate the possible subtext of that. At all.

I think it just means he thought your hair looked nice?

I find that very difficult to believe for some reason, but I guess there's really no telling what he meant since I didn't ask him. I just changed the subject. I don't often feel awkward around people, but something about that particular moment made me really feel weird and uncomf. Not because I thought he was being sincere, but because it sounded like a robotic thing to say.

It also sounds like he's at least 20 years older than you and it's 1946.

"I like what you've done with your hair" just sounds like one of those "how to win friends and influence people" kinds of tips, you know, that they learn in smarmy books. Start conversations with people you find difficult to talk to by leading with a compliment.

Anyway, I was just thinking about this thread on the way home.

And I was remembering how, when I was in my late teens and early 20s, I learned to bond with other women by putting down our own appearances. That whole thing of "my thighs are fat" "oh no my thighs are much fatter" as a way of bonding with other women over one's insecurities.

And I was thinking about what we have been doing on this thread today, which is bonding over how destructive it is to face body policing, and coming up with solutions and solidarity of how to resist it, and bonding over our experiences and how we've overcome them (or tried.)

And it's funny how it's a similar sort of bonding experience, except that whole thing when I was 17, that used to make me actually feel kinda yucky at the end of it. And the thing that we have been doing today, it actually makes me feel better. But both through the process of bonding through sort of complaining about something. But what a difference it makes, to complain about pressure, instead about our actual selves.

And I just wanted to say, that's awesome, and thank you ladies.

And that is 5 paragraphs in a row I have started with the word "and" which is a total grammar sin but I'm not going to change it.

<3<3<3

Yeah that shit always made me straight up uncomfortable. Like I know you're supposed to say "oh no you look gorgeous look at my [flaw] it's worse" but it just feels totally phony.

"That must be difficult for you, but I wouldn't know because I'm fucking awesome." *jumps in helicopter, flies away*

^ how I would respond to those things if I was an asshole with a helicopter

haha believe it or not no one likes that
it doesn't help that my copter says DEA on the side

No one also likes when you pantomime casting a fishing rod and reeling in a fish
No one likes a wiseass

xp I guess I should stop telling people that I like what they've done with their hair - which I have employed when a new hair style or cut has been busted out. I didn't know it was so robotic.

This thread makes me so glad I never had parents who played appearance headgames (they stuck me with every other possible kind of neurosis though) and that the geeks I hung out with weren't particularly concerned with if they were too fat or too skinny. Random school jerks were aplenty, of course, but they had lots of other reasons to pick on me (poor, too tall, out of style clothes & cars &c). The place I work now is, of course, a very superficial place and that's a bit hard, but I'm almost 30 and they're all 25 anyway so I can deal with being different. And of course, my quirkiness lends itself to descriptions of me as "creative" and "interesting" and all sorts of descriptions based less on my body type and more on my overall appearance.

Of course, my Mom was 95 pounds at 5'6" or 7" (she fed her 4 children before she ate, a financial ED if you will) my whole life and I wish she had been a bit tougher about making me exercise more or eat less, which she never did. I gain weight easily and most of my life was very sedentary. It's hard to change your life at 30 - would've preferred to start at 7 with a soccer class or something. But my parents wanted me to be free to choose the way my life turned out, which is tough to do before you've learned life lessons! Damned hippies.

But what a difference it makes, to complain about pressure, instead about our actual selves.
amen

totally

interesting re: overall appearance. i was also thinking, while reading the boobs/bras thread, about common lines we hear about showing off our "best assets" to detract from our apparently less-than-stellar assets. which annoys me, breaks our bodies/selves into parts to accent and draw attention to. like "you should show off your ____ more!" and things like that. i mean, yes, certain cuts of clothes look good on different bodies, but i would say let that be about the whole rather than the parts. i think there are a lot of clothes out there that are really all about the parts.

I wish she had been a bit tougher about making me exercise more or eat less, which she never did. I gain weight easily and most of my life was very sedentary.

In my experience, the former doesn't have a whole lot of impact on the latter.

I have been and to be honest still am a chronic overeater and never got any exercise beyond walking to the bus stop. I feel that, in my experience, my parents could have kept an eye on my portions/fast food intake/between meal snacking when I was too young to really understand that one day I'd stop growing out and then up. I moved in with my Dad at 14 & can't remember him ever even suggesting we eat healthy (i.e. ANYTHING but fried or pizza'd food) more than the occasional raw veggie & dip tray.

Also, the pop. I drank at least if not more than a 2L of Coca Cola every day from 14-20. But I was washing down large portions of unhealthy food with that crap far earlier than that, even.

I used to get a bit obsessed with coke (Coca Cola) when I was small because we NEVER had that kind of thing in, never even name-brand squash. When we visited my grandma she had this whole freaking BAR with huge bottles of coke and pop and a fridge full of chocolate. They used to let us have a glass of coke with dinner then but it was this teeeeny glass so it went in 2 seconds then I craved more and kept asking for it but it was never enough. My parents brought me up on stuff like liver and lentils and powdered milk so coke was this amazing party in my mouth.

my love for Donald Sutherland in the 70s is well documented, I'm afraid.

<3<3<3

I have one customer who often tells me "oh you've lost weight, you look good!" I say thank you even though I haven't lost any at all.

I love when my coworkers call themselves fat cows. I say nothing but think to myself I am about 30-60 pounds more than you, why are you saying this to me and how do you think this makes me feel?

I went to a party last year with family and old friends, and I felt like some of them were surprised I looked so good.

And I think I have mentioned that one of these women has me in her prayers for me to FIND A MAN.

I learned to bond with other women by putting down our own appearances. That whole thing of "my thighs are fat" "oh no my thighs are much fatter" as a way of bonding with other women over one's insecurities.

this really struck a chord - i never realized that this had been a thing in my life until I read your post, which was totally A+ and otm throughout, tbh.

<3

Have any of you ever gotten the impression that a guy puts down women on TV because he thinks it makes you feel better? like he is putting down Barbie-ish or fake or "perfect" women because he is trying to express some kind of rejection of or even repulsion at idealized images of femininity? but then it actually just makes you angry because he is basically just nitpicking and being critical of even "perfect" looking women ("what does he think *I* look like?!?!")? That's been hard for me to deal with sometimes.

I pointed out to my BF when we were first dating that he sometimes criticized women for looking/being old and that that isn't acceptable/is fucked up/etc. he stopped and now points it out/corrects it in other people. i love him a lot.

Aw, that is very very cute.

I do think I know what you mean with the women on TV.

I remembered another awesome instance of people being overly critical about this shit. My aunt and grandmother in Germany used to do this every time they saw me. I remember visiting once in college and showing my aunt a picture of my then boyfriend and I at a formal. I had gained about 20 pounds (and overcome an ED) since the pic and my aunt took one look at the pic and then me and said "Your figure!! What happened?!". When I lost weight they practically fell over themselves telling me how amazing I looked. Every time I used to Skype with my grandmother the first thing she'd ask me is if I was still looking after my figure.

I remember my mother once saying to me a couple years ago, "Your father is very proud of how beautiful you are". I know that she meant it as a compliment but it just made me sad. I've always got the feeling that I've let my parents down in a lot of ways (school, job, personal choices) but somehow my appearance is a great source of pride for them and if I gain weight then I feel that that's just another area where I've failed. Bah. Awful. Sorry - I know this isn't my therapy hour or anything. Just something I thought of earlier.

I love when my coworkers call themselves fat cows. I say nothing but think to myself I am about 30-60 pounds more than you, why are you saying this to me and how do you think this makes me feel?

i have a few friends that are like this. because they're my friends i do say something -- mostly trying to reassure them that they are super foxy and not fat cows and avoid self-denigration, though sometimes i'm in a mood where the self-denigration can't be avoided.

When you guys were little and had movies or assemblies at school did you ever sit behind each other one by one and braid each other's hair? We used to do that all the time and I'd freaking love someone to play with my hair right now but don't think it's really appropriate to ask my co-worker. That said, the ass smacker would probably be down for some hair play.

I was going to say to ask the smacker!

But yes, I have a very clear memory of sitting around grooming each other like little monkeys.

total mini monkeys

Yet another way I totally fail at being a girl. :-/

Not so much at school but my two older cousins (girls) would. Me and my bff used to brush each others hair when we were living together.

Now I just make do with Ytth -the best part is I don't have to reciprocate bc he's bald.

xp Aw, no way. Nobody can fail at being a girl, imo. It's just a thing that happens sometimes with little kids.

Ha, no, I think it's just that I was basically a boy until I grew breasts. I was just never interested in that whole hair/clothes thing and probably would have thumped anyone who tried to touch my hair.

It wasn't for appearance. It just felt awesome. We also used to write on each others backs with our fingers and make one another guess what we were writing.

Yeah, see, cause of the whole dislike of being touched thing, that just sounds horrible, rather than awesome! I would have hated having someone touching my back if I couldn't see it. (Still would.)

Ah, the variability of human experience. It's interesting.

Truly!

I was a tomboy for most of my childhood, too (to the extent that some kind, concerned girls tried to stage an intervention to make me act like a girl in fourth grade (sarcasm, fyi)), but I love to be petted. Well, by certain people. Not by like, strangers on the train.

Oh god I just gave myself the creeps.

me and two of my friends in first grade used to braid each others hair during story time. we all had really long hair. vivid memory.

we also used to draw pictures and write on each others backs and guess what was being written/drawn. i had forgotten that. clearly remember drawing an apple on my friend rebecca's back now

I did the writing on each other backs. I must have done braiding hair.

OMG Erica, I was just talking about the assembly hair-playing thing to my dateboi the other night, thats so freaky! We were talking about odd things we did as kiddies and I said I used to love it if someone sitting behind me in assembly started braiding/playing with my hair! I was like, 8, so didnt understand why it made me feel so ... er... NICE.

We also used to write on each others backs with our fingers and make one another guess what we were writing.

me and my brother used to do this! also a thing where you 'played a tune' on the other's back and they had to guess what it was (nigh impossible).

Trayce - how funny!

I know right?

haha c# I did the "guess the tune" tapping thig too. Its nice to know how universal this stuff is!

I think "widespread" would perhaps be a better descriptor than "universal" ?