Magic: The Gathering C/D

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it would be like serra angel going out of print

Mordy, Monday, 2 July 2012 23:38 (eight years ago) link

serra angel was actually gone from 5th and 6th editions, I sorta left around 6th so at that point serra angel felt like it was done

duels app is doing thing thing where it crashes at the startup screen - already did this to me once and I reinstalled and lost my progress. prob gonna reinstall again. annoying, tho considering how quick the progress is it's kinda w/e.

iatee, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 03:52 (eight years ago) link

i was a big fan of the card too, but it is kind of out of flavor for green and IMO the 'flying' part of it has always been awkward, so I understand why "it's super popular" isn't keeping it around anymore

frogbs, Tuesday, 3 July 2012 05:05 (eight years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Just bought the 2013 version of the Deck Builder's Toolkit and am very happy with it. My son and I have been playing around with it for most of the weekend. Would definitely like to pick up some more of the Innistrad-style cards as I really like the gothic/colonial designs.

Moodles, Sunday, 22 July 2012 22:48 (eight years ago) link

M13 is pretty great to draft, it has a lot of breadth of strategy which is unusual for a core set

i have high hopes for the new Ravnica block, though they're treading on dangerous ground since the original Ravnica was their most popular set ever. the block structure and prerelease gimmick seem brilliant though

ciderpress, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 15:43 (eight years ago) link

Agreed on M13 draft. It's actually quite fun and has the kind of inter-card synergy that the other core sets lacked. Alas, it seems like every time I draft it I get my ass kicked by either Krenko (who I never seem to have removal for) or Sands of Delirium (which is one of the dumbest cards for Limited, ever)

RtR is probably going to be amazing. But I would really love to see the Magic community go apeshit if the duals don't get reprinted XD

frogbs, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 15:55 (eight years ago) link

I have been watching a lot of MTG streaming lately, it's in the air I guess! Pumped for M13.

Also also I had an idea! I wonder if anyone here might go for it? It's based on:

1) Magic is the best u guys.
2) Magic is the best when you're 12 and can't just look up the best decks on the internet, that basically ruins everything.
3) Magic costs way too much money.

What if we all got MTGO accounts and made decks and vowed to only spend exactly $1 a week on cards? You could spend it or save it or whatever - most cards outside the top playables are like $0.05 on there so we'd start with complete rubbish and slowly develop this weird metagame of our own. I am totally on for this, magic is the best.

Gravel Puzzleworth, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 16:15 (eight years ago) link

I've been saying that the internet ruined Magic for years

frogbs, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 16:19 (eight years ago) link

if enough ppl are interested, i'll participate. $1 a week definitely reasonable, esp if there's a bunch of ilxors to play w/

Mordy, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 16:19 (eight years ago) link

M13 is pretty great to draft, it has a lot of breadth of strategy which is unusual for a core set

haha the funniest thing is that after drafting AVR so heavily my first few M13 drafts i had to stop myself from going on autopilot after like 5 picks because i gotten so used to there not being any playables after that point.

every time I draft it I get my ass kicked by either Krenko

haha on sunday during i draft i opened krenko P1P1 and then got passed an arms dealer pack 2. i ended up with two arms dealers and a bunch of other goblins incl two krenko's command and went monored. of course i lost 1-2 in the finals to a dude w/ a super efficient U/w fliers deck :/

Lamp, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 17:32 (eight years ago) link

Yeah the lack of playables really makes 4-pack sealed a dumb format in AVR. And yet it's by far the best value on MTGO. Go figure.

My first M13 draft, someone got Krenko's Command, Arms Dealer, Krenko by turn 4 both games while I just stared at my hand full of Pacifisms and Divine Verdicts and silently wept

frogbs, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 18:33 (eight years ago) link

My wife recently confident to me that she wanted to play Magic real bad in the late 90s, and even went so far as to buy a few decks, but couldn't convince anyone to play with her.

how's life, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 18:56 (eight years ago) link


how's life, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 18:56 (eight years ago) link

I've been saying that the internet ruined Magic for years

So much yes :( Totally want that schoolyard 'there's an archetype that does what?' atmosphere back again, where we are all somehow maindecking 4 flashfire to deal with rev's kithkin control deck that we can't beat any other way.

Gravel Puzzleworth, Wednesday, 25 July 2012 21:09 (eight years ago) link

haha well you could always just play limited

Lamp, Thursday, 26 July 2012 00:06 (eight years ago) link

I played limited today! It was funnnnn.

Gravel Puzzleworth, Thursday, 2 August 2012 23:24 (eight years ago) link

what did you play? I keep getting tempted but wimping out.

iatee, Thursday, 2 August 2012 23:34 (eight years ago) link

And it has the most absurdly complex rules for anything I have ever seen.

Ha, the thread starter really hasn't delved too much into the world of nerdy fantasy games. I've always thought Magic is pretty simple.

I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Thursday, 2 August 2012 23:40 (eight years ago) link

the basic rules of magic are pretty simple but if you want to get into the rules lawyer stuff it can get pretty complex

iatee, Thursday, 2 August 2012 23:42 (eight years ago) link

once you start talking about the stack...

Mordy, Thursday, 2 August 2012 23:45 (eight years ago) link

M13 draft - opened Oblivion Ring and then went WB for ALL THE REMOVAL - 2xMurder, 2xPacifism, Public Execution, Crippling Blight and Divine Verdict. Kinda forget to get any creatures but went 2-1.

Magic is funnnnnn.

Gravel Puzzleworth, Friday, 3 August 2012 01:00 (eight years ago) link

<i>what did you play? I keep getting tempted but wimping out.</i>

If you're intimidated by limited the best format is definitely sealed, as it removes a bunch of decision points, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a serviceable deck, you can experiment with different deck types in different games, and all the queues are swiss, so you should get four somewhat close matches. Plus, if you lose, you can just blame it on the other guy being lucky enough to open a bunch of bombs. Sealed events on MTGO also typically offer better EV than drafts (for example, four pack sealed does not have an entry fee and only requires four packs, so the prizes are all gravy). The best time to dip your toes into limited is actually right now, as I type this: core sets are less complicated than expansions, everyone plays sealed when a set first comes out, and since the set is pretty new, there are going to be a bunch of other people who aren't totally sure what they're doing, which means your games will probably be closer than if you tried starting at the end of a set's life.

webber, Friday, 3 August 2012 03:44 (eight years ago) link

apparently some people in nyc are pretty srs players and I need to brush up on the rules

iatee, Friday, 3 August 2012 03:45 (eight years ago) link

also what do I need to bring? I have no 20 sided die or land or anything anymore!

iatee, Friday, 3 August 2012 03:46 (eight years ago) link

any store will have a land box you can pull from and you can just use a notepad and pen to keep track of life + everyone will have dice to borrow if you need to, the first couple of times i just showed up w/nothing but the draft entry fee and it was totally fine

i drafted tonight as well but did p horrible, i was passed nicol bolas and just kinda went w/ it but ended up spread too thin across all three colors and my mana was horrible (despite two dual lands), i was p lucky to go 2-2

what makes you think its a pun (Lamp), Friday, 3 August 2012 03:52 (eight years ago) link

that's what I vaguely remembered but again I am pulling up memories from the 4th grade

iatee, Friday, 3 August 2012 03:53 (eight years ago) link

nicol bolas is the dream everyone has to reach for. shame on whoever passed it to you

webber, Friday, 3 August 2012 06:30 (eight years ago) link

Sometimes you fly too close to the sun. I had a buddy first pick a Nicol and force those 3 colors, winding up with a really awful deck, but when he landed it's like...ohhh who's laughing now?

frogbs, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:47 (eight years ago) link

Also anyone on MTGO should try Momir Basic. Basically the rules are: your deck is all basic land, and during your turn you can pay X and discard a card to summon a RANDOM creature that costs X. If you're a skill guy you'll probably wind up disliking it but it's a pretty fun way to kill twenty minutes!

frogbs, Friday, 3 August 2012 13:49 (eight years ago) link

more limited tips - iatee you might know all this crap already but might as well have it in this thread somewhere

a useful mnemonic that people use for pick orders/card evaluations in limited is BREAD:
B = bombs. basically any card that can swing the game heavily in your favor if not immediately dealt with. large flying creatures, planeswalkers, mass removal, etc. these are usually rares and they're usually obvious.
R = removal. cards that can deal with all or most of your opponent's threats. examples: Pacifism, Murder, Searing Spear. Situational removal spells (e.g. Divine Verdict, Crippling Blight, Prey Upon) and temporary removal like Unsummon are trickier to evaluate so make sure your deck can use them properly.
E = evasion. flying, unblockable, trample, intimidate, sometimes first strike. creatures with abilities that make them difficult to block and can often break through a board stall.
A = aggressive cards. this is sort of a catch-all for solid creatures, good combat tricks, etc. look for guys with high power relative to their casting cost. also you want your early plays to be able to 'trade up' with a larger creature and your later plays to avoid 'trading down' with a smaller creature. A 3/3 is often better than a 4/2 for this reason.
D = defensive cards. yeah, sometimes you can draft a sweet control deck, but in general, especially as an inexperienced player, you're going to win more games by pressuring your opponent and putting the onus on them to make the right decisions. leave the walls and blockers in your sideboard unless they're likely to trade with something efficiently (e.g. the 1/2 deathtouch spider is actually a high pick because it's essentially removal).

ciderpress, Friday, 3 August 2012 15:57 (eight years ago) link

Yeah that's a good start. When I began drafting a lot the only tips I got was "creature removal first, then creatures, everything else sucks". Basically the implication there was "don't take goofy creature enchantments" like so many newer players do. The problem with that acronym is that say in M13 there are many times I'd take a Fog Bank over Wind Drake even though the E is higher than D.

My only real tip for draft is to be aware of mana costs. If two cards are about equal value, go with the one that isn't a 3-drop. Because pretty much every limited format is FULL of good 3-drops. Also be weary of cards with double mana symbols (something that costs WW is tough to play turn 2, really)

frogbs, Friday, 3 August 2012 16:02 (eight years ago) link

specific tips for M13:

-the format is fairly slow compared to other recent sets. bears (2 power guys for 2 mana) without relevant abilities should be considered filler if you're short on turn 2 plays or creatures. don't be afraid to cut them from your maindeck.

-despite being a slow set, there isn't much color fixing so i'd avoid playing more than 2 colors

-the exalted mechanic plays a lot stronger than it looks. every creature with exalted is a solid playable, even the 0/4 wall.

-Faerie Invaders is the only common i can think of that's a potential blowout, so be wary of its existence when attacking

ciderpress, Friday, 3 August 2012 16:20 (eight years ago) link

Also, W/G and B/G decks with exalted and tramplers (such as the 4/2 guy for 3G) can be very powerful. Like the last set with Bloodthirst, Exalted is more powerful than it looks because the set is designed to take advantage of it.

frogbs, Friday, 3 August 2012 16:29 (eight years ago) link

do mtg players make good or bad poker players and how strong is the correlation

thomp, Friday, 3 August 2012 16:33 (eight years ago) link

let's ask d3athdr0n3

"Pffft" --buddha (silby), Friday, 3 August 2012 16:37 (eight years ago) link

the 2 MTG/poker crossover guys i can name off the top of my head are David Williams and Eric Froelich, not sure how good they are at poker though since i don't follow that

ciderpress, Friday, 3 August 2012 16:44 (eight years ago) link

if you don't think i have a long post on this on the way, you got another thing comin

frogbs, Friday, 3 August 2012 17:07 (eight years ago) link

in my experience with both (much more w/ poker than mtg tbh) some game proficiency carries over throughout a bunch of different games, but the skillsets are different enough (and the stakes and level of competition in poker so much higher than mtg) that i wouldn't expect a great mtg player to necessarily be a great poker player. i do think a great poker player could probably pick up mtg at a high level fairly quickly.

Mordy, Friday, 3 August 2012 17:10 (eight years ago) link

Anyway, I don't think the coorelation is strong, but I would think that MTG players turned poker players in general would be better than randoms. MTG is more about figuring out how a bunch of moving parts are going to interact while poker is more about figuring out how your opponent is going to react to a certain action and how he's going to play certain groups of hands. Case in point; if you could see your opponent's cards in poker you would never lose. In MTG knowing what your opponent has is only a small advantage. The card Gitaxian Probe lets you see for 2 life or one blue mana, plus it replaces itself. That would be like something in poker allowing you to see what your opponent has by throwing out a small blind. Plus in poker, everyone plays off the same deck. A good MTG deckbuilder is not going to get into situations often where their cards are worthless because his or her decks are going to be set up to maximize their resources. Whereas the best poker players get dealt 72 and miss flush draws all the time (regardless of what the Bond movies tell you).

The best poker player I know is really bad at Magic; he misses a lot of minor advantages all the time. The best Magic player is a guy who very rarely makes a mistake and is a great deckbuilder and he's such a huge fish at poker that we actually kind of lamented the fact that he moved away.

frogbs, Friday, 3 August 2012 17:22 (eight years ago) link

wouldn't you need a bunch of them in your deck though? if peek for one blue or two life was attached to er a permanent it seems like it'd be way overpowered. nb i have not played magic in ten years.

poker to me seems like a weird meta-game/superstructure of pushing counters around, the apparent 'game' part with the cards just an algorithm ... which isn't much like anything in the interlocking systems in magic, though i guess the meta-gaming/'reading people' stuff gets displaced to deck-building

thomp, Saturday, 4 August 2012 13:05 (eight years ago) link

its interesting because knowing your opponents hand is not actually considered to be worth a card - Telepathy has been around for more than 10 years and was never played in competitive decks

ciderpress, Saturday, 4 August 2012 14:41 (eight years ago) link

huh, fantastic. i suppose there's few ways to action it - there's no 'discard target card from opponent's hand'

thomp, Saturday, 4 August 2012 14:42 (eight years ago) link

there is, and its a tournament staple:

ciderpress, Saturday, 4 August 2012 14:45 (eight years ago) link

though i guess that lets you look anyway

ciderpress, Saturday, 4 August 2012 14:46 (eight years ago) link

haha er never mind then! well.

thomp, Saturday, 4 August 2012 14:46 (eight years ago) link

is there any way to search all this stuff by effect? or do you learn about x thousand cards via harried study of past games by candlelight etc etc

thomp, Saturday, 4 August 2012 14:47 (eight years ago) link is the best card search engine i know of - i mostly just know this shit from playing the game on and off for my whole life

ciderpress, Saturday, 4 August 2012 14:48 (eight years ago) link

ha, there are 108 cards with some version of 'target player reveals hand'. also this:

thomp, Saturday, 4 August 2012 14:57 (eight years ago) link

i think a large part of why i never got into magic all that much was that there's this vastly complex set of possibilities for different interacting effects of various kinds, but unfortunately it always has to come down to 'get this one number from 20 to 0'. i guess at high level play there's people doing y'know 'combos' and stuff and trying to set up win conditions but then it's kind of, do it before your opponent reduces this one number from 20 to 0

thomp, Saturday, 4 August 2012 15:00 (eight years ago) link

haha zur's weirding was one of the 2 rares in the first magic thing i ever bought (5th edition starter deck). the other rare was Nightmare which i was a lot more excited about at the time

ciderpress, Saturday, 4 August 2012 15:01 (eight years ago) link

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