rolling 2012 UKG interzone bubblers thread

Just how good can Disclosure get????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoQa6G8wyiQ&feature=share

They're getting better but I still think they have a way to go before they step out of just being another post-dubstep impersonator, this one sounds like an old fantastic mr fox remix of diffrent letrix which would have been alright in 09 or something but now sounds kinda dated to me. Its nice and slick, production is good, but the beats and ideas are so generic it just doesn't stick with me. Plus they're really bad at cut up vocals. Kinda suprised you dig it didn't think you where into that stright up post-dubstep vibe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1NpJFDrRq8

Fantastic Mr Fox is good at beats but never had any interest in making pop tunes. One of my annoyances about future garage and a lot of post-dubstep copping from 2-step was always how it wanted to suck the sonic ideas out of it while carefully extracting the pop quotient and leaving it on the side of the plate.

And more generally it's funny that you complain "this is so 2009" rather than "this is so 1999".

Fantastic Mr Fox is good at beats but never had any interest in making pop tunes.

don't think this is true at all!

I suppose it depends on whether and how you distinguish between "features vocals" and "pop".

right, i think some of his instrumentals are the most overtly pop (down to the chord changes & structure, some of them even have a bridge!).

I dunno I don't hear anything pop in Disclosure no more or less so than anyone like Fantastic Mr Fox, Joy Orbison, Bashmore, etc bar the fact they get play on more mainstream radio sometimes, but then its not something that crosses my mind much in general not much of a pop guy myself. Its defo more 09 post-dubstep influenced, sounds nothing like 99 garage to me.

Loving everything I've heard from Disclosure, was never a fan of Orbison or Bashmore bar Battle For Middle You (ergh but what a terrible title). Not sure why this is the case either.

I'm checking out Fantastic Mr Fox now and it sounds completely different to me, at least the Evelyn EP and Sketches remind me at times of Mount Kimbie, feels kind of busy and more informed by electronica in general. Which tracks should I be listening to here?

One of my annoyances about future garage and a lot of post-dubstep copping from 2-step was always how it wanted to suck the sonic ideas out of it while carefully extracting the pop quotient and leaving it on the side of the plate.

totally agree - "pop" is really a dirty word to a lot of these people, you feel

i think it's okay for music to not be pop music

sure but it's not okay for music to be completely dry and boring

To be clear, i'm not saying all 2-steppy post-dubstep other than Disclosure is dry and boring, more that it seems kinda self-evident to me why this particular stuff gets played by DJ Q and the like whereas Fantastic Mr Fox, Joy Orbison, Damu etc. (all of whom I think are excellent at times, esp. Damu - and a good example of how you can by hypercolourful and songful but not really pop in the same way) do not.

"Pop" isn't even quite the word for it - it's more a sort of bounciness and bubbliness that tunes either have or they don't.

It hardly surprises me that jimi doesn't hear the distinctions I'm hearing - we've had similar divisions before where I see a real faultline between juiciness and studiousness and he doesn't at all and seems to focus more on technical/arrangement similarities and distinctions (hope I'm not misrepresenting you jimi).

I mean, that distinction is one of the reasons I started this thread as distinct from just posting to rolling dance partisans.

Nah we defo hear things diffrently its why I like coming on here to see whats going down.

Theres a load of crossover in this and the partisans stuff anyway for me at least, I mean I've been repping for CRST, Mista Men etc for years. Just with Disclosure I don't feel like they really fit here and really do in the partisans thread. I find them a bit dry and boring. But then I lean toward more of the chunky swung bits and skipy grime/bassline with Q anyway. Just thought it was kind of interesting where the Disclosure love is coming from in this kinda scene. To me it seems like an odd fit.

Agreed with Damu he's ace. One of the only guys doing this hypercoloured sound I'm really feeling at the mo. But then he sounds pretty diffrent I get more of a house lean to Disclosure.

No Disclosure track has jumped out at me yet they don't feel like they've founds their feet at all yet. They sound to me like any old soundcloud producer playing at stright up post-dubstep tropes at the moment, which there are so many of. I mean why do I need to hear a track of theirs when bits like them where done well not so long ago and they're not adding to it yet. I dunno if they'd stand out at all a few years ago when this kinda stuff was at its peak. Maybe they'll grow into a vibe of their own a bit in the future mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKOPsnzcG9k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEPgQc1IQzw

I completely understand this connection, between post-dubstep and Disclosure, of course. I find them way more vibey, aimed right at the dancefloor, rather than continuously foregrounding production tricks that may or may not add something extra to a track as dance music. Plus Disclosure really have this nice influence from UKG that feels like a genuine influence, rather than nostalgia or something mashed together with all kinds of other UK dance genres.

I hear more of a house vibe than a UKG one. There is lots of very busy not very dance floory post-dubstep tho yeah Fantastic Mr Fox does verg on the busy, there is something more simple about Disclosure thats why I'd put them closer to older Joy Orbison or some Julio Bashmore for the most part, even Huxley or Dusky. Its that shiny tech house vibe with a bit more bass and a slight swing. But I wouldn't go as far as to say they're swung/skippy enough to be compared to garage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLQ4ywMeh2c

i mean that's basically what keeps me from posting on this thread about stuff i like like pattern and well rounded, it's basically just bouncy tech house w some skippy dan bell influence and some skippy uk influence but it's really a stretch to call it anything but house

There seems to be a lot of it about at the moment. The other weekend at Glade Festival I heard Appleblim, Mosca, Addison Groove all do pretty much stright up tech house sets with a little skip here and there. I can only take so much of it in a row tbh. However much I like some of the tracks, all at once it get tired fast.

i've mainly been a 4x4 techno / house listener for years now tbh so it's all good to me, kind of livens up the usual gear

Yeah it does sound nice mixed in with house/techno but on its own I just found it boring, there wasn't much variation going on. Sometimes DJs make tracks I like sound boring by the way they mix them, selection around them or whatever and this was the case here for the most part.

My experience of Disclosure is mixed in with grime and bassline and etc where it comes across as relatively straight (but still bouncy) - though of course there's full on house tunes that DJ Q plays that are straighter.

In this regard it's interesting listening to jackin' house (which DJ Q plays a bit of) which is trying to squeeze the bubbling vibe out of an even straighter post electro-house template.

But this whole vibe - what I mean when I say "UKG interzone bubbler" - is not really about strict stylistic demarcations so much as a kind of sonic-spiritual affiliation, an "if it's bumpin..." imperative which, again, seems intuitively obvious to me but I'd have difficulty articulating exactly what it is so I don't blame people for not seeing it.

I know it seems a bit doctrinaire, but the "would DJ Q play it" rule of thumb is a pretty good one.

Yeah its good rule of thumb, just like I said above some DJs can make tracks I like sound boring by the way they play them and other like DJ Q can play something I'm not that into sound damn good. I guess I'd rather hear Disclosure in a DJ Q mix than in one of their own or alongside some more tasteful house. It does make it sound more exciting or at least beefs it up a little when you mix it energeticly with harder stuff.

One another note this was on the last DJ Q show...

Mella Dee - Fazed

http://soundcloud.com/forefrontrecordings/sets/mella-dee-ruff-cuts-ep-fore005

Feeling this 12", its good to hear something with a bit of rudeness at such a low tempo.

Yeah those Mella Dee tunes are great, though they sit very oddly with this sound (by virtue of their dystopian lethargy) - it'll be interesting to see if that becomes a trend at all.

Incidentally this is the og 2-step that "Closer" makes me think of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-NLm9Awjq4

I was kind of suprised to hear the Mella Dee tracks on there, I've had them for a while and it never crossed my mind that they'd appear on a Q show. Its prob the Mista Men connection. Fits with quite a lot you hear on Hessle and Night Slugs shows at times.

I can hear that connection between closer and that yeah. Bar the drums not being as garage and them addign a little Orbison synth its damn close.

What a fabulous run of tracks this is at the beginning of the current Q show:

Disclosure — Control 

Nastee Boi — Baby

DJ Antoine — Welcome To St. Tropez (Feat. Lethal Bizzle) (TS7 Remix) 

Lenny Fontana — Spirit Of The Sun (Mike Delinquent Project Remix) 

Rack N Ruin — Slow Down

Classified — Call Me Maybe 

Wookie — 2 Us (Exeman Steppers Mix)
Burgaboy — Brian Storm (Remix) 

SBTRKT — Living Like I Do (Feat. Sampha) (Lil Silva Remix)
Dismantle — More Funk
Todd Edwards — Love Inside
Rudimental — Deep In The Valley (Feat. Shanti) (Woz Remix)
Cleo Sol — Never The Right Time (DEVolution Remix)
Billy Kenny & Chris G — Diamond Rings
TS7 — This (Feat. Russo) (DJ Q Special)
Duncan Powell — Brake 2012
Delinquent — Step In The Dance (Feat. Lady Leshurr)

listening to q knowing so many of these tunes wouldnt have and will not rub shoulders elsewhere ever again is too bloodclaat melancholy tbh :(

like even that there is a selection that while it would only scan as general ukg to most outside observers is still an interzone within the interzone really (ie let alone outliers-but-not like maya jane coles or w/e), particularly the last half

how would you divvy up those trracks in the last half?

good show anyway, i love m.i.k (even though the video for 'mor3' genuinely makes embarrassed to say so) and fabian tremorefire is great and seriously deserves a mike delinquenty breakthrough sooner or later

http://soundcloud.com/djfabion/fabian-ride-1

tim did you ever hear this? one of my absolute 10/10 favourite, totally freaky manifestations of the sparrowlike urges of nu-ukg

even down to his "lowkey on the pwofile" speech impediment it's brilliant

SBTRKT — Living Like I Do (Lil Silva Remix) = nu lil silva harsh gloomcore
Dismantle — More Funk = idk this guy but this is fluoro clubby bosh
Todd Edwards — Love Inside = todd is todd, classicist
Rudimental — Deep In The Valley (Feat. Shanti) (Woz Remix) - similar to dismantle bleepy clubby herve / dubble dutch eurowonky
Cleo Sol — Never The Right Time (DEVolution Remix) - protean remixers do a garagey thing
Billy Kenny & Chris G — Diamond Rings - jackin
TS7 — This (Feat. Russo) (DJ Q Special) - 2step revival via bassline/jackin
Duncan Powell — Brake 2012 - plinky mnml weirdness from otherwise ukg classicist
Delinquent — Step In The Dance (Feat. Lady Leshurr) - pop bosh

like haha i do realise none of that means nothing to anyone but just understand that simply no one else draws from these notionally similar micro-ecologies to create a living breathing sociable whole under a garage banner

you could associate 9 different djs to each of those tracks who would then play similar sonically complimentary stuff and never touch the other

took me a while to realise it btw but that 'diamond rings' is the absolute lick

listen to way it only implies the rest of the original sample ("i gave her di-di-diamond rings / i gave her everything") and plays on its past tense by introducing a portentous "I CAN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND" to make it seem like a wronged, vengeful sequel. the definition of ardkore

http://soundcloud.com/dj-chrisg/chris-gresswell-billy-kenny

thanks rob! i am trying to navigate my way through funky w/o stepping in pop

or should i say twostepping in pop

i actually got dismantle all excited based on hardwax reviews but i thought it was moombahton-grade crap

not quite up to timo mass "dooms night" snuff

fellow old men of ilm, nothing is up to the standards set by your youth

that's why being young is what it is

make the realisation and then sink or swim

i am more of a double 99, smokin beats, dem 2, b15 project kind of listener as opposed to, say, sunship, wideboys, monsta boy, artful dodger fan

there must be some stuff on that end of the spectrum out there, right?

that isn't "FACT music"

gloomcore? are elijah & skilliam gloomcore or do you mean more like james blake?

What's the distinction b/w b15 and wideboys/Sunship etc above, v?

Cosign all rtc's comments re the Q show obv.

praise jesus for finners arriving to take over just before my patience was abt to snap

i guess the difference comes down to "girls like us" original mix

i actually like quite a bit of wideboys and sunship but i have a strong preference for the left of these continua

abstract <-> songful

samples, basslines, effects <-> performance, sociology

armand van helden, 187 lockdown <-> todd edwards, timbaland

"girls like us" i realize is rather right wing

but i guess it is so masterful in the effects / samples department that i love it. i'd say the same about dem 2 i guess and probably a fair number of wideboys and sunship, pre-2002 i guess

Yeah I was gonna say, something like the wideboys' "west side (2 da floor mix)" is left wing par excellence.

I don't think what you're looking for exists right now as a sound per se, except (appropriately enough) as implied by the center of the venn diagrams Q likes to draw. It's that gold thread of bubbliness rather than pop per se, a bubbliness that runs through pop and darkness/heaviness both.

honestly i just dug up this frankie foncett cd on pure silk and also dj ez mix on warner strategic marketing and this mikee b / dj target / maxwell d ayia napa thing from 2001 and artful dodger and dj luck and mc neat (both volumes of both!) etc etc last night

it's a lot to take in and rough going, i'm just throwing names out based on some things i remembered and trying to remember the rest

Am I reading you right to the effect that you're just taking that era in now??

http://soundcloud.com/djfabion/fabian-ride-1

tim did you ever hear this? one of my absolute 10/10 favourite, totally freaky manifestations of the sparrowlike urges of nu-ukg

I mostly adore Fabion/Tremorefire (his "Boom Selection" remix is A+) and did rifle through his soundclouds a while back, will have to wait till I get home to check this though.

I think the real demarcation these days is less between abstract vs songful and more along production values lines.

This is where a distinction between say 1999 garage and 2001 garage really makes sense, the earlier stuff still retaining a kind of vinyl warmth and almost-"deepness" and the later stuff sounding like the contrast has been turned up - heavier but more plasticky beats, exaggerated bass but also exaggerated treble... a generalised air of hyperreality.

This (rather than pop vs abstraction or lightness vs heaviness) is probably the key point of distinction between "future garage" and the stuff that Q plays, only it's even more extreme now, future garage being "deep" to the point where it has to shun anything that might interfere with that, and the Q interzone retaining (albeit as a kind of reigning principle rather than a clearly defined sonic property) the sickly harshness of bassline.

hmmm good analysis

no no this is all stuff that i was buying as it came in (new imports, usually 20-30 bucks)

(as a result i emailed b1!$$b10g to thank him for recs and he kindly pointed me to this forum)

i was so excited

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Shake-It-Up-Garage-Sessions/release/132673

and then oh my god it all turned to shite

http://www.discogs.com/Various-The-Artful-Dodger-Presents-Rewind-2001-Lessons-From-The-Underground/release/322730

iirc there was a concomitant rise in # of threads about r&b and microhouse

not a snarky question, btw - don't know if you're into clubbing or not but in that type of situation it's usually the way to go

anyone fuck with this?

https://soundcloud.com/lidogotsongs/lido-canblaster-superspeed-1

is there such a thing as maximalist garage? i kinda love it

The Lido & Canblaster EP this is from is incredible* but it's much more in the vein of Rustie and Hudson Mohawke than anything DJ Q would play on his show.

(*incredible = I can't decide if I love or hate it but I was definitely struck by it on my first listen)

created by robots for me to etc.

https://soundcloud.com/felixzuppe/felix-zuppe-one-two-step-original-mix-2

shorterz/kenny

https://soundcloud.com/rinsefm/tomshorterz260116

made a DJ Q-style mix of recent favourites:

https://soundcloud.com/mind-taker/house-garage-may-2016

G-Eazy & Bebe Rexha - Me, Myself & I (Lost Kings Remix)
Vato Gonzalez & Mucky - Violet Nights
Futuristic - Back n Forth
Mij Mack - Shukka
TAISUN - Senorita
Flume feat. Kai - Never Be Like You (Disclosure Remix)
Bixel Boys & Poupon - Ain't Your Girl
Dumblonde - You Got Me
RELOAD - Rehab
Dombresky - Gloary
Hybrid Theory - Code 3
Rich Wakley - The Wolf of Old Street
Saint Tropez Caps feat. Damae - Human Nature (Luca Debonaire Remix)
Sleepy Tom feat. Tonye - Seeing Double
Joshua Brooks & Chris Gresswell - Taken
Alina Baraz & Galimatias - Make You Feel (Le Youth Remix)
Matoma & Astrid S - Running Out (Throttle x Niko the Kid Remix)
Petey Clicks & Sinden - Feels
Shadow Child - Work
Destructo feat. Ty Dolla $ign - 4 Real (Chris Lorenzo Remix)
Chris Lorenzo - Scarecrow
Hybrid Theory & Trilla - Dutty
As I Am - All Away (Tom Shorterz Remix)
Mikey B feat. Dakota Sixx - Over It
Sigala feat. Imani & DJ Fresh - Say You Do (TS7 Remix)