jenny mccarthy wants your kid to get measles: autism, vaccines, and stupid idiots

I cant help but wonder if these days a lot of helicopter parents DONT let their kids do any of that, keep them rigorously clean, swabbed in triclosan, out of the outdoors, paranoid about germs, not feeding them peanuts, etc etc, and this is making things worse? I mean IANAD so I dunno, but it does make me wonder.

That is one prevalent theory behind the rise of food allergies. Though there is also a rise of Celiacs and type 1 diabetes, and I'm not sure anyone has a theory behing that.

ask yr cervix what's up

nb another misconception about vaccines is that you WILL get the disease if you are not vaccinated. any lady that has unprotected sex (of the STD variety, not the baby-catching kind) has likely been exposed to HPV. and has maybe generated immunity all on her lonesome. see also most other vaccine-preventable diseases, for everyone.

the main thing is that these diseases are ~preventable~. you do not have to risk an exposure that is quantifiably more dangerous than vaccine, we have the technology. kids getting measles in the waiting room isn't galling "merely" because some kids got really sick, its because that simply does not need to happen anymore, it's not a fact of life.

cf chickenpox. at 31, i'm probably in the last or second to last cohort of people that had to get the chickenpox to be immune to the chickenpox, and, as a result, marginally increase my chances of shingles later in life. is chickenpox a scourge on children? no, not really. it sucks, but the number of kids with seriously adverse outcomes is low (iirc). are those outcomes devastating for the people that live with them? yeah. would it be wise to tamp out the possibility of not-just-itchy outcomes by vaccinating? sure, plus then i don't have to get shingles (nb - i need to check my work on that). are people that miss or actively avoid a chickenpox vaccine horrible scum? of course not, who cares.

polio is a different story. Hib is a different story. Measles, rubella, etc. (rubella, btw, is a pretty trivial infection in an actual child---it can be very serious for a fetus, though, so immunizing people doesn't protect children, it protects pregnant mothers)

Didn't they or haven't they determined that the chickenpox vaccine does not convey reliable immunity?

q: why don't guys get HPV vaccine?

there are std and baby-catching varieties of sex? idk i'm not that worried about it. we're all gonna get cancer and i don't like going to the dr sorry

w/r/t celiac and DM1 dxs

shooting from the hip here (as i have been), but i'd hazard that auto-immune disorders are on the rise largely from a diagnostic bias---as has been made abundantly clear itt and in the larger vax discourse, our understanding of the immune system is very much a work in progress. i'm not sure that people are getting rheumatoid arthritis or lupus or w/e more frequently, but i am certain that we are waaaaaay better at finding biochemical markers for those illnesses than we were even a few decades ago. i mean, auto-immune disorders, like celiacs and maybe DM1, are notoriously vague in the clinical sense (ok not diabetes). it's p much an old saw that SLE is "the great pretender," the differential is immense when one considers symptoms.

which, to me, is why vaccine was one of the most serendipitous discoveries ever made. we figured out that if you spent a lot of time around a bad thing, you were less susceptible to that bad thing. give other people a really smart bit of the bad thing, and maybe they won't get it full-strength as often. no one knew what a fucking antibody was.

My dad always said that the two greatest advents of modern medicine were vaccines and indoor plumbing.

Didn't they or haven't they determined that the chickenpox vaccine does not convey reliable immunity?

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:06 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

dunno---i'll look into it. the only people i've been giving zostavax have been olds, at risk of shingles (ie - never had chickenpox at an young age, if they get it now then its g-d shingles owwwwwww). which is another benefit of herd immunity: less kids get chickenpox, less old people that somehow bafflingly never had it end up with shingles.

remy: boys should get the HPV vaccine. p sure it hasn't been approved for boys yet (...clinical trials, ladies and gentlemen), but i likely will be. given that stupid boys are the actual vectors, vaccinating them would be more efficacious imo.

unsafe sex: u can catch a std in an otherwise 'safe-sex' setting at least as far as babies are concerned.

remy, they are starting to recommend the HPV vaccine for men.

ok yeah i guess that's what i meant by i thought it was too late. also i was making fun of you. didn't they want people to get the vaccine before any sex was had or something. i don't remember. like if you were above a certain age it was probable you had already been exposed?

Plus, they're rare, but the vaccine protects against two strains of wart-causing HPV. Warts.

harbl, there are enough diff strains that it was recommended up to age 25ish even if you're sexually active.

but i'm 27

idk, get it anyway if they'll give it? Even if you clear a strain in six months like many people, it'd stop you from passing it to someone who passes it to yet someone else who would get cancer

no i want to murder everyone! maybe when i eventually get around to having a doctor. i might be 35 by then time moves pretty fast.

yr dad otm xp

tho i'd strike "indoor" and just keep "plumbing." without the plumb-is-lead bit.

keeping shit water away from mouth water struck a blow to the heart of the microbial estate bent on invasion via that which we hold so dear

giving our bodies a pack of terrorist playing cards installed a ruthless security state that keeps our children, our futures, safe

hpv- they want ppl to get it before having sex, yeah, or else its not quite as effective (no one gets hpv the first time they have sex...OR DO THEY????). i say give it to everyone. ladies have to get paps all the dang time, so we have some idea of the prevalence (but not really, paps turn up FPs all the time). men don't get screened at all.

what is an FP? stop it with these abbrevs!

FP = false positive, I think?

yeah

mea culpa. i'm in too deep with the medical apparatus

in russia, medical apparatus is too deep in you

oh god i just googled speculum to find a funny image. DO NOT DO THAT.

i have a q about the chicken pox/shingles thing: so if you've had chickenpox, you won't get shingles, or are less likely to get it?

v someone that has never had chickenpox at all? more likely. the question is whether or not a chickenpox ~vaccine~ will lower your chances of shingles. afaik, its a live vaccine, attenuated, so presumably it potentiates the risk of reactivation when older. but only when considered against someone who has never been exposed to chickenpox, not when compared to someone that actually had a full-on case of it.

OK have not read all of thread yet, but my first reaction as someone actually trained in SCIENCE is wtf evidence is there for any benefit with this vaccine schedule?

Will read thread now assuming answer is in here. . .

it isn't beneficial, could be harmful, but not on an individual basis.

ok, thanks for the clarification, gbx. i was curious bc my little sister (who is type 1 diabetic) and my mum both had chickenpox as kids but both had shingles a few years ago.

shingles is deactivated chicken pox in most people, iirc. If you never had the latter, you're not going o get the former that way, in theory?

REactivated, that is

I mean I could go to PubMed and figure this out myself but I prefer to have gbx talk about it! BTW gbx, have you thought about the public health service? You would be great, although it would probably drive you bonkers.

oh whoops some xposts

OK again I could look this via NIH grant funding, but is anyone even looking, large scale, about the risks/benefits of this nutty vaccine schedule?

I gotta get back into infectious diseasees; this stuff gets me fired up.

Srsly I want to punch Jennie McCarthy in the face, and I'm a peace-loving hippy chick.

xp:geez

I had chicken pox as a kid and then shingles a few years ago. Like mh I thought you had chicken pox and then got better but the virus lurked inside of you until suddenly one day LIVE AREA SHINGLES LOOKING TO PARTY ON YOUR HEAD AND FACE.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001861/

Yeah, pretty much

btw I am gbx's age but made it to 14 without getting chicken pox so I got the vaccine.

Chik-Pox sucked. I think I was 8, and it was a horrible couple of weeks. I haven't had singles but I'm sure it is coming.

There's a shingles vaccine! They really only recommend it for people 60 and older, though.

I'll get a fake ID.

I don't think you have to worry about it unless you're immuno suppressed or super stressed (I got them when I temporarily lost my job and our apartment caught fire in the same week).

i also had shingles as a p healthy mid/late 20s person. was weirdly brought on by a sunburn, i think. it wasn't as incredibly painful as it seems described as for elderly ppl but it def sucked

plus not just on my head but on my EYE so yea fuk u shingles

A friend of mine got shingles when she was pregnant.

I used to get shingles twice a year due to sun exposure. Now: SPF 50, even indoors.

I had chicken pox as a kid and then shingles a few years ago. Like mh I thought you had chicken pox and then got better but the virus lurked inside of you until suddenly one day LIVE AREA SHINGLES LOOKING TO PARTY ON YOUR HEAD AND FACE.

Shingles are the worst. I am immuno suppressed so that's how I ended up with it -- my shoulder still gets the occasional ache and pain from the area that had shingles, but the idea of having it on the eye gives me so many nightmares. That must have been so painful.

Yeah, for real. My case was relatively mild, thankfully.

I have shingles right now! My ex got it last year. I suspect it's somewhat common among certain stressy types.

boys should get the HPV vaccine. p sure it hasn't been approved for boys yet (...clinical trials, ladies and gentlemen), but i likely will be. given that stupid boys are the actual vectors, vaccinating them would be more efficacious imo.

But how, from a public-policy standpoint, can we separate the stupid boys from the non-stupid boys to prioritise limited resources?

Look at their facebook pages.

can we separate the stupid boys from the non-stupid boys

it's easy, the second group is imaginary

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/01/rob-schneider-links-autism-vaccines_n_1641922.html