Sonic Youth new album "Rather Ripped"

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fulsome

adjective

Affectedly and self-servingly earnest

Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 14:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I took "sandbagging" in this context to mean its length dragged down the album (as opposed to the terseness of Experimental Jet Set...)

Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I think the definition of "fulsome" implied by the context is "copious or abundant", which is not pejorative. I would also surmise that the definition of "to sandbag" implied by the context is "to hit or stun with or as if with a sandbag" - which implies that the song is forceful, which is not necessarily pejorative.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Your read has validity - as does mine - and this is a pet peeve I have with Christgau. You can endlessly parse and debate some of his statements and still come away unsure of just what the hell he meant.

Doubly ironic that the sentence was written in a "and here's how you do it!" spirit...

Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:33 (seventeen years ago) link

I think the definition of "fulsome" implied by the context is "copious or abundant", which is not pejorative.

This sounds right.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:41 (seventeen years ago) link

"...yeah, but do we kick butt?"
"Read it again."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Deathtongüe's new album, Pimples From Hell

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link

fulsome
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English fulsom copious, cloying, from full + -som -some

1 a : characterized by abundance : COPIOUS b : generous in amount, extent, or spirit c : being full and well developed

2 : aesthetically, morally, or generally offensive

3 : exceeding the bounds of good taste : OVERDONE

4 : excessively complimentary or flattering : EFFUSIVE

usage: The senses shown above are the chief living senses of fulsome. Sense 2, which was a generalized term of disparagement in the late 17th century, is the least common of these. Fulsome became a point of dispute when sense 1, thought to be obsolete in the 19th century, began to be revived in the 20th. The dispute was exacerbated by the fact that the large dictionaries of the first half of the century missed the beginnings of the revival. Sense 1 has not only been revived but has spread in its application and continues to do so. The chief danger for the user of fulsome is ambiguity. Unless the context is made very clear, the reader or hearer cannot be sure whether such an expression as "fulsome praise" is meant in sense 1b or in sense 4.

I could picture Christgau viewing a 20 minute track as evidence of some pretentious wankery.

When I hear the word "sandbagging" I think of someone or something that slows down proceedings - isn't that the common business or legal use? As in weighing down, preventing the natural flow? I've never been hit with a sandbag, although I guess Daffy Duck has...

Goddamn this English language of ours...

Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 15:52 (seventeen years ago) link

It's really good, even better than Sonic Nurse.

You really think so?

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I really do.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:06 (seventeen years ago) link

jaymc, you are the indie rocker's indie rocker.

electro-acoustic lycanthrope (orion), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, Alfred, considering that was your #1 of 2004, it stands that this will prob be higher than the comment "I'm going to find it difficult to keep this off my top 10" indicates.

Ian, I have no idea what that means.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Following o.nate's reading, maybe this is what Christgau should've said?

Here's another instance: Boring or not, 1998's A Thousand Leaves unquestionably marked a turn toward the quietude, ruminative structures, and general fuzz level always implicit in their unresolved tunings and Deadhead-manquéjams—tendencies tersely deployed on 1994's Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star and copiously indulged on Washing Machine's stunning 20-minute "The Diamond Sea."

Perhaps less interesting sounding, but more clear. Is Christgau advocating the avoidance of clear word choices in favor of more vague ones in order to pursue "objectivity"? Let's forget the pejorative-or-nay for a minute - is calling "The Diammond Sea" "fulsomely sandbagging" better than just flat-out calling it "exhilarating" or "stunning"?

Edward III (edward iii), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, Alfred, considering that was your #1 of 2004, it stands that this will prob be higher than the comment "I'm going to find it difficult to keep this off my top 10" indicates.

I suppose so, but a favorite album is also ranked according to other extra-formalist concerns: time, place, autobiographical minutiae. I don't see Rather Ripped as my no. 1 album this year, even though it's a better album than SN.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Okay, that makes sense. I agree about the extra-formalist concerns. (For instance, I find that I undervalue certain albums in year-end lists simply because I've burned out on the artist -- even though they're perfectly good albums, I get tired of them more quickly.)

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:37 (seventeen years ago) link

sonic nurse was only ok cuz they started biting modest mouse phrasing

66666 (pds37), Wednesday, 7 June 2006 16:50 (seventeen years ago) link

the first version of the cover is better

gear (gear), Thursday, 8 June 2006 00:02 (seventeen years ago) link

....sigh.....3 more days then......

Darren Skuja (Darren Skuja), Sunday, 11 June 2006 00:15 (seventeen years ago) link

haha cool, i thought i was the only person still waiting to buy this album who hadn't attained it by illegitimate means by now

Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Sunday, 11 June 2006 00:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Is "Jams Run Free" about the green ray phenomenon?

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Sunday, 11 June 2006 11:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh man, they play here on Wednesday. I feel like a child on Chrismas Eve.

mts (theoreticalgirl), Sunday, 11 June 2006 12:48 (seventeen years ago) link

picked it up yesterday.
see, i'm one of those whack jobs that get the leak, then BUY the album, even after i know it by heart...
art on it's kinda 'meh' to me...like the inset pic tho!
thurston's FINALLY aging!!

edde (edde), Sunday, 11 June 2006 17:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Only listened to it a couple of times, but I guess it rocks.

strom (strom), Sunday, 11 June 2006 17:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, today's the big day then. I've enjoyed yer previews, everyone. Can't wait! I'll give my initial thoughts in a day or so.

Darren Skuja (Darren Skuja), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 12:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Wow, the iTunes samples sound like actual 60s / 70s psychedelia! I like it! They also seem to have somehow kept the weird off-kilter quality without sounding stressed-out and depressing, which tends to be a byproduct of inverted chords and jangly dissonance for most of their material, imo.

Uri Frendimein (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 17:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I'll be seeing them in Seattle on the 30th -- and without Pearl Jam. Nice.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 17:39 (seventeen years ago) link

It's kind of funny/endearing how Kim can't sing, but on these tunes in particular, I'm wondering if she does it on purpose. Maybe it's always been on purpose? She's way off here.

Uri Frendimein (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 17:42 (seventeen years ago) link

i just picked this up. the production is so perfect!.

Christopher Costello (CGC), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 02:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Everything about it is perfect. For me, it's the album to beat this year.

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 03:46 (seventeen years ago) link

album o-da-year, fo sho!

Christopher Costello (CGC), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 04:03 (seventeen years ago) link

my only gripe- i want less kim, more lee.

edde (edde), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 15:11 (seventeen years ago) link

lee is the george harrison of sy.

Christopher Costello (CGC), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

he's also a bit like their james mcnew. (except it'd be tragic if lee sang as few songs as james.)

apparently SY played 'rather ripped' in order from start to finish at CBGB's last night!

rajeev (rajeev), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 15:21 (seventeen years ago) link

lee is the george harrison of sy.

Except Lee's songs get worse instead of better ("Rats" is easily the weakest song on RR). I think the last song of his I loved was 1998's "Hoarfrost."

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 15:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Anyone have tickets for the sold out SY show in Philly tonight?
That they don't want??? ;(

Chris Bee (Cee Bee), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 15:32 (seventeen years ago) link

But why did they put the Helen Lundberg-track on it?

strom (strom), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 15:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Except Lee's songs get worse instead of better ("Rats" is easily the weakest song on RR)

Soto done gone loco.

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Wednesday, 14 June 2006 16:58 (seventeen years ago) link

This album is kinda like Sonic's Youth's Wild Honey... no chronological analogies, though.. just the whole idea of the reason for making the album.

There are albums that sound awesome in the record store, and then sound alright at home.. which is most of SY's albums, but this is an exception. Rather Ripped sounded a bit weak when I heard the advance in the record store, but now that I'm playing it at home, alone, at high summer dusk, it sounds incredibly intimate, warm, and gentle.

It's a cool-out album.. a couple of tracks rock a little bit more than the rest, but nothing rocks more than even the more "poppy" songs on Daydream Nation, which some consider "mellow".

But, not as much as Wild Honey, it's a zone-into album as well.. not a play-at-a-party-or-in-public album. "Do You Believe In Rapture?" is really nice. "Sleepin' Around"... "Reena"... "Or" as well. Hell, pretty much the whole album. The rest is neither incredible, nor really bad... just really nice.

It's a cruise control album. Why not? :)

aDOring NUTbians (donut), Thursday, 15 June 2006 03:10 (seventeen years ago) link

not a play-at-a-party-or-in-public album

I'll rephrase this: not a play-at-a-nightclub album

aDOring NUTbians (donut), Thursday, 15 June 2006 03:11 (seventeen years ago) link

It kinda sounds like Sonic Youth referencing all the bands in the past decade and a half that borrowed from them initially, to some degree. (opening of "Jams Run Free" <=> Smashing Pumpkins' "1979")

aDOring NUTbians (donut), Thursday, 15 June 2006 03:15 (seventeen years ago) link

just got home from the philly show. they played RR in its entirety, with 3-4 other tracks. solid show.

mts (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 15 June 2006 03:40 (seventeen years ago) link

"This song is so old, it was written before you guys were born."

Chris Bee (Cee Bee), Thursday, 15 June 2006 03:50 (seventeen years ago) link

dear SY: pls find bass player who knows more of your songs, is better. thx. [ibold got the sympathy vote.]

blackmail (blackmail.is.my.life), Thursday, 15 June 2006 04:05 (seventeen years ago) link

true dat, jt. anyone get a setlist? write it down? i forgot my notebook.

mts (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 15 June 2006 12:56 (seventeen years ago) link

here's a setlist from last night:

Incinerate
What A Waste
Pattern Recognition
Do You Believe In Rapture
Reena
Rats
Sleepin' Around
Turquoise Boy
Jams Run Free
Lights Out
PCH
Pink Steam
------
The Neutral
Shaking Hell
------
Or

i too would have liked to have heard more old songs. but the new stuff rules, so i still enjoyed myself thoroughly.

spastic heritage (spastic heritage), Thursday, 15 June 2006 13:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Is Ibold the reason they're only playing new songs, you think? (I.e., he hasn't had time to learn the entire catalogue.)

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 15 June 2006 13:50 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost to jaymc:

short answer = yes. could he learn a few choice cuts though? it made me really miss jim o'rourke's performances with them (aside from nyc ghosts & flowers tour.)

blackmail (blackmail.is.my.life), Thursday, 15 June 2006 14:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Be patient, I'm sure they'll get around to adding more songs! They probably are eager to play all the new songs right now because they haven't done them so much before. "PCH" and "Pattern Recognition" are the only two songs carrying over from the last few rounds of touring, they probably just want to do something different.

They need to get a second Lee song in there, though!

Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Thursday, 15 June 2006 14:57 (seventeen years ago) link

The album is fantastic. It seems strange but right now my fav album of the year is a toss-up between this and The Obliterati.

New Media Intern (New Media Intern), Thursday, 15 June 2006 15:20 (seventeen years ago) link

just bought it today. tell me, is it good for to drink to?

Uri Frendimein (Uri Frendimein), Thursday, 15 June 2006 19:01 (seventeen years ago) link


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