CLUSTER: I have fallen in love with this band, please help

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I got Zero Set for, like, $3 at the Oberlin Co-op during some sell-off. It's very, very underrated, agreed. Lots of great Conny Plank electronic textures with driving rhythms — kind of like Zuckerzeit's evil twin...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 15:28 (nineteen years ago) link

BTW, met Roedelius in Austin a few years back. Nice guy. Hott daughter.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:03 (nineteen years ago) link

damn

dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Pretty much

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Seriously, as I think back on it, the idea is like the Krautrock equivalent of marrying a Gore daughter...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 18:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Nice guy. Hott daughter.

Roedelius once sent me an email (after reading a web review I had done of one of their '96 concerts) with his phone number in Austria and told me to look him up next time I was over there. Still have it, too...maybe it's time to visit! ;)

Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 20:50 (nineteen years ago) link

I realized that it wasn't Zero Set that I was talking about above, but Moebius and Beerbohm's Double Cut. I've never heard the former.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 20 May 2004 19:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I love Double Cut too... shockingly minimal. side two is the ultimate in mindless driving music... twenty minutes of that two note bassline.

But it's no 'Zero Set', which is maximal & covered with overwhelming detail.

All these records were reissued on Gyroscope in the late 90's, and are _already_ all out of print again. 'Durch Die Wuste' already going for $30 used through amazon.com retailers. So if you find them, do not hesitiate.

Stylus should really do a two-part overview...

(Jon L), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:06 (nineteen years ago) link

For now, this’ll have to do

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 20 May 2004 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link

nice. you just write that?

I wouldn't call the Harmonia/Eno CD 'failed'; it's a collection of demos, not an album. It wanders around a bit, but I still like it a lot (though I always skip the first track).

(Jon L), Thursday, 20 May 2004 22:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, inspired by this thread, really. And you have a point, though I actually liked that first cut. I've always looked at it kind of like a Holy Grail of Krautrock -- sort of what you'd imagine in your (broken) head.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 21 May 2004 02:29 (nineteen years ago) link

it's no holy grail. but it's fun. I like the way they end the disc with the demos of things that ended up on the two cluster/eno albums.

seriously could not live without everything from 71-84, but here's my bloodstained guide to post-84 solo albums:

Moebius: the first three albums with Plank are the place to start: 'Rastakraut Pasta', 'Material' and 'Zero Set'.

I like 'Tonspuren', a lot.

Both the albums with Beerbohm: 'Strange Music' lives up to title. Noisy, demented, repetitive. 'Double Cut', even more minimal.

'Blue Moon' - his Casio CZ-101 album. a few effective simple tracks I enjoy very much, but wouldn't start here.

avoid Moebius & Plank's 'En Route'. attempt at coming to terms with new digital gear, quirky but stiff & unfinished, and the Moebius/Plank/Thompson 'Ludwig's Law', which is simply Mayo Thompson ranting over a lo-fi dub of 'En Route'.

'Ersatz' and 'Ersatz II' by Moebius & Renziehausen -- soft spot in my heart for these. Though they are pretty silly & have a lot of preset sounds, they are mainline motorik fun, and strange.

His recent solo album 'Blotch', don't like much. And the recent live reunion album with Neumeier, advertised with the line 'Sounds like Zero Set' -- no. It's not bad for a mellow improv session, but that's all it is.

Roedelius went increasingly acoustic after 84. avoid anything that mentions saxophones on the back cover, except for 'Sinfonia Contempora No. 1', 'La Nordica' and 'Der Ohrenspiegel'; he got back into experimenting with electronic textures on those three, they all have great moments.

The 2001 collaboration with Conrad Schnitzler 'ACON', is a single evolving drone split across many tracks; they spend about 20 minutes warming up, then get into some interestingly bent textures. Worth picking up used if you can find it.

The Selbstportrait series are archival compilations of the solo tracks he made in the 70's while in Cluster; basically sinewave organ chords & melodies with no further ornamentation. They're braindead simple, and beautiful. especially II, III, and 'VI (Diary of the Unforgotten)', which has a lot of excellent demo tracks & mixes from the Harmonia period.

The CD of 'Selbstportrait I & II' drops several outstanding tracks from the vinyl version of volume II. Skip the disc, find the vinyl.

(Jon L), Friday, 21 May 2004 03:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Wow, thanks for all this information - I still feel overwhelmed! Heard some of Jardin Au Fou and Tonspuren and agree these stand out. Surprised to find I love Grosses Wasser as much as Sowiesoso and Zuckerzeit!

Cluster II reminds me of Spacemen 3, oddly enough. The Harmonia is okay, but I eagerly await the other Harmonia album.

Curiosum leaves me a bit cold. Too woozy. Haven't yet spent a lot of time with their earliest works, but stay tuned...

Bimble (bimble), Friday, 21 May 2004 20:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Harmonia's DeLuxe is better than at first thought. But still not enough to quench my desire for more music from these two.

Bimble (bimble), Saturday, 22 May 2004 05:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Well bimble, if you've just got DeLuxe, then there is that first Harmonia record waiting for you; although I have to say I actually prefer Deluxe to the other one. Honestly, it is one my all-time favorite albums. I don't want to come across as patronizing, but one thing I would say is maybe slow down a bit; take your time with some of these records you're acquiring, and give them a chance to open up! I only say that cuz I totally know where you are coming from. Many is the time I've discovered a new band/record, and I'm like "oh man, I need EVERYTHING. NOW." And I always enjoy getting all the rest of the stuff, but it never quite matches that initial impact of something that really connects with you. I always have to tell myself to relax, that the records will always be there, etc.

Deluxe really comes alive at night, I think, or in the dark. It conjurs up the color orange, for me. Amorphous 70s architecture. The soundtrack to Romper Room, maybe. Did Romper Room have a soundtrack? I can't remember. Anyway, some long-buried early childhood impressions of sound. I guess that's the kind of thing people get out of Boards of Canada or something, I dunno. I get it from these classic two records, which were in fact released in the 70s.

I just love the title cut, with that simple rhythm box backing, those vocals, and the way it breaks down into that long meditative middle part before the reentry of that big glorious fanfare. I love Rother's slide guitar on "Walky-Talky". I love the way that marching theme on "Notre Dame" just falls away, and all these sparse synth blurps take over, before it returns again. And I find something really affecting about the melody of "Kekse", the final track. It's very sweet, like a lullaby. And then it melts away into those marsh sounds, insectoid chirps and amphibious croaks... Yeah, top 3 AM stuff!

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 22 May 2004 06:36 (nineteen years ago) link

No way, I can't believe it's Broheems. I've been trying to figure out if your name is meant to be a twisted anagram of that guy Moebius worked with called Beerbohm.

Bimble (bimble), Saturday, 22 May 2004 06:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Ha! Nah, it's just a dumb ILX in-joke actually; some silly SoCal surfer slang. I've been meaning to change it to something else, but I'm really lazy. Lassitude is my middle name.

I've actually never heard those records with Beerbohm. I totally want to, though; especially after reading milton's approbation above.

Broheems (diamond), Saturday, 22 May 2004 07:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I like 3 A.M. stuff. Search: Suicide "Frankie Teardrop"

Bimble (bimble), Saturday, 22 May 2004 07:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Just pulled down Selbstportrait I & II and Zero Set. Both are great. When do the former's tracks date from?

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Saturday, 22 May 2004 14:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Selbstportrait I& II are from '79 & '80, I think...

Joe (Joe), Saturday, 22 May 2004 14:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, I thought the record dated from then, but wasn't as sure about the recordings themselves...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Saturday, 22 May 2004 14:28 (nineteen years ago) link

I have a question about these Selbstportrait things: I know they are compilations - are the tracks on them available on other albums or were they like "here's a bunch of unreleased stuff" kind of compilations?

Bimble (bimble), Saturday, 22 May 2004 14:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Just got the Japanese import of the other Harmonia in the mail today! "Music Von..." It does indeed seem better than "De Luxe" at first glance.
One question: there have to be people here who remember what dishwasher detergent containers used to look like in 1974. Did they really look like they do today, like the container on the sleeve of this CD??!!! I mean, am I supposed to do my laundry at the same time as listening to this?

<envisions watching clothes go round in a dryer in a public laundromat while listening to Harmonia>

Bimble (bimble), Saturday, 22 May 2004 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link

>"here's a bunch of unreleased stuff" kind of compilations?

that's how they started out at least. Selbstportrait III actually includes dates for each track, some go back to '73.

Volumes IV and V were retroactively titled, wenn der sudwind weht and flieg vogel flieg don't make any mention of being a part of the series. they also might actually date from the early 80's, but the aesthetic is consistant; no acoustic instruments, just pure sinewave chords & melodies.

Volume VI returns to the archive, the first half feels like the last leftovers but the second to last track 'hommage a forst' is a 25 minute collage mixed from solo outtakes & alternate mixes from Music von Harmonia sessions, it's super dupes.

I'm spending a lot of time writing about the solo releases, but you only move on to these after getting the 71-84 work... there's no rush either, I bought these records from 1985-1992, even when the vinyl was slightly easier to find, it took years. I'm outing myself as a true obsessive with these posts but there are few bands I spent this much time with...

(Jon L), Saturday, 22 May 2004 20:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Working on getting Selbstportrait now, just wait.

Still overcome with love for Jardin Au Fou above all right now!

Tonspuren I like better than Harmonia's "Musik Von", though the latter has it's good points.

Gonna give De Luxe another listen right now.

Can't wait until my very own Japanese remastered reissue of Sowiesoso comes in the mail. The last one on the planet? I shall have my fun!

Bimble (bimble), Monday, 24 May 2004 07:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Agree with everything Broheems said about "Deluxe", I prefer it to the first album, tho the first album is more "radical". I think I'm right in saying that Bowie and Eno admitted that "Deluxe" is the album they "borrowed" from most, more than any of the Neu! albums and, case in point, compare "Red Sails" from Lodger with "Monza" and "Julie With" from "Before and After Science" with "Deluxe". I have "Double Cut" by Moebius & Beerbohm and confess to finding it pretty dull.

Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 24 May 2004 08:08 (nineteen years ago) link

one year passes...
I'd just like to point out that I dl'd Deluxe b/c I've been on a big CS80/Before and After Science kick -- and I don't hear the "Julie With"/"Deluxe" comparisons at all. I mention it b/c you've made that comparison on two threads. At best, the guitar sounds are maybe similar...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 21 October 2005 17:55 (eighteen years ago) link

I haven't heard "Julie With..." in years but the bass kind of carries the melody doesn't it? That's what probably reminds me of "Deluxe". And maybe a general feeling of late-Summer languor.

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:04 (eighteen years ago) link

... or am I thinking of another Eno song altogether?!?!? It's possible!

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:05 (eighteen years ago) link

It's "Here He Comes" I'm thinking of!

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 October 2005 09:10 (eighteen years ago) link

finally tracked down a copy of wenn der südwind weht. most of it is quite good, with a few standout tracks. it's dated 1981, but even so i think the tracks dates vary as some just sound older than others. this is one of the nicer songs on it:

roedelius - mein freund farouk

finding it impossible to track down the early selbstportraits or jardin au fou. surprisingly i didn't like what i heard of durch die wuste. i figured i would love it since its the earliest of his solo things but the trademark melodies are missing and the guitar on it is pretty bad.

amon (eman), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 02:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh balls and "Durch die Wuste" was the one Roedelius left that I fancied owning. "Mein Freund Farouk" is my favourite thing on "Wenn der Südwind Weht"!

BarabadabaDadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 11:17 (eighteen years ago) link

don't take my word as i'm often a picky listener. check the samples of it on amazon, that's what turned me off it.

amon (eman), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 22:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I hate "Here He Comes"!!

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 23:33 (eighteen years ago) link

three months pass...
the cluster & eno album is beginning to grow on me now. i still dont think so much of zuckerzeit though. havent heard the others

terry lennox. (gareth), Saturday, 28 January 2006 13:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Check out the last track of Zuckerzeit, Terry...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Saturday, 28 January 2006 18:26 (eighteen years ago) link

sorry, i made a mistake. i meant to say, i didnt think so much of grosses wasser.

i have zuckerzeit, but have only played it once

terry lennox. (gareth), Saturday, 28 January 2006 20:06 (eighteen years ago) link

cluster 71, cluster II, zuckerzeit and sowiesoso are the only ones you need of the proper cluster albums

|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l|l| (eman), Saturday, 28 January 2006 20:14 (eighteen years ago) link

grosses wasser is my least favorite. there's not much holding it all together and much of it is a bit plain, but it's got moments. you could tell most of their energies were going into their solo albums by that point.

curiosum isn't for everyone, but it's definitely for me. really subminimal.

like I said upthread, the reunion records are very skippable. but I've got a board recording of their KFJC FM 96 set that hand down beats anything off any of the live albums they released.

milton parker (Jon L), Sunday, 29 January 2006 01:47 (eighteen years ago) link

terry lennox, have you heard the eno/moebius/roedelius record "after the heat?" side a is great, side B ruins it with stupid vox on a couple of tracks.

Special Agent Gene Krupa (orion), Sunday, 29 January 2006 02:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Curiosum is fantastic; Grosses Water sounds to me like Peter Baumann had too much influence.

nerve pylon (flat_of_angles), Sunday, 29 January 2006 02:47 (eighteen years ago) link

I agree

though if you needledrop yourself straight into the middle of the rhythmic bit on side 2, you'll be likeably confused for a few minutes

milton parker (Jon L), Sunday, 29 January 2006 09:19 (eighteen years ago) link

good discography with translations, including full translations of the spoken word texts on the first two Kluster records

http://mitglied.lycos.de/neuschnee/Clusterdiscs.htm

milton parker (Jon L), Sunday, 29 January 2006 11:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I actually didn't think Grosses Wasser was all that bad. Couldn't stand beside Sowiesoso or Zuckerzeit of course but still...it made more of an impression than Curiosum. I should pull this stuff out today, get familiar again and maybe report back. It's been awhile.

Bimble brings a lawn chair to antartica so he can sit and drink silver coff (Bim, Sunday, 29 January 2006 18:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Of course all that was written before I studied my previous posts from ages ago. I sure didn't know the ILM regulars as well back then, I'll tell you that much.

Bimble brings a lawn chair to antartica so he can sit and drink silver coff (Bim, Sunday, 29 January 2006 18:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Anyone here heard the Gadgets, Matt Johnson's early band? This Curiosum stuff reminds me of some of that. I never had Gadgets 'Blue Album' though so I can't comment on that.

Bimble brings a lawn chair to antartica so he can sit and drink silver coff (Bim, Sunday, 29 January 2006 18:35 (eighteen years ago) link

thanks for the Gadgets tip. i'll investigate!

i was curious about those Ersatz lps, any other opinions? they (Ersatz lps) are hard to find!

nerve pylon (flat_of_angles), Sunday, 29 January 2006 20:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Can anyone confirm or deny whether the latest reissue of Zuckerzeit (on Universal Germany I think) is copy-protected/DRM'd? I've been looking for it for ages, and now it turns out Neighborhoodies of all places sell the reissue for a pretty reasonable price, but I've heard that some of Universal Germany's other recent Krautrock reissues are DRM'd to hell, won't play in car stereos or computers, etc...

telephone thing, Sunday, 29 January 2006 22:27 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
Oh balls and "Durch die Wuste" was the one Roedelius left that I fancied owning.

actually it is worth getting and i take back my earlier comment. i downloaded it in full and it's very good. think i'll buy it when i get a chance as this mp3 rip is pretty bad.

smokemon (eman), Monday, 27 March 2006 01:58 (eighteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
FYI, a (Gemm.com) seller named "Mundo" recently had the Curiousum, Grosses Wasser, Zero Set as well as Sowiesoso Japan CD releases for sale. These can all be hard to get. Don't necessarily go by his Gemm or his "www.mediawars.ne.jp/~mundo" web site, email Ray directly at "mundo@mediawars.ne.jp" to ask about availability and shipping.

-Harry

Harry Dangel, Monday, 10 April 2006 15:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I love the fact that one of their frequent collaborators is a guy named Tim Story, always makes me think of On Cinema

frogbs, Thursday, 23 June 2022 03:09 (one year ago) link

husband of semi-famous Windham Hill artist Liz Story!

thinkmanship (sleeve), Thursday, 23 June 2022 03:56 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

Curiosum is such a baffling record. I've listened to it 4 times in the last 24 hours and can't figure out if it's a load of wank or a portal to some primitive form of consciousness. "Oh Odessa" has been in my head constantly. "Tristian in der Bar" makes me laugh. "Seltsame Gegend" makes me wanna play QWOP. "Ufer" makes me crank the volume up and then I'm so calm I forget to turn it back down again. This is what they did after Grosses Wasser?? What other albums sound like this?

frogbs, Wednesday, 19 October 2022 14:05 (one year ago) link

I'm obsessed with Oh Odessa, it's got this childlike primitive quality that I can't get enough of.

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Wednesday, 19 October 2022 14:39 (one year ago) link

(xp) Maybe some Moebius albums? Though the childlike quality is more Roedelius' thing.

Fronted by a bearded Phil Collins (Tom D.), Wednesday, 19 October 2022 15:13 (one year ago) link

Haha yeah, it's a deeply weird and addictive record. "Portal to some primitive form of consciousness" is OTM. A couple tracks have a kind of "demented clown" vibe, which I'm not that into (e.g. "Oh Odessa", "Seltsame Gegend"). The queasy major-key waltz duo of "Tristan In Der Bar" -> "Charlic" is probably my favorite part of the record.

I haven't heard anything else that sounds exactly like Curiosum, but parts of Moebius and Beerbohm's Double Cut sound like a slightly less primitive version of its more menacing moments, like "Proantipro" with a hardware update.

J. Sam, Wednesday, 19 October 2022 15:19 (one year ago) link

I heard "Oh Odessa" on a Cluster compilation, sounds to me like a theme song from a public television educational kids' show from the era.

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 19 October 2022 15:52 (one year ago) link

yeah, also get a little bit of a hardcore devo vibe from "oh odessa"

love this record

(⊙_⊙?) (original bgm), Wednesday, 19 October 2022 18:39 (one year ago) link

great 420 record too, close your eyes and put on "Tristan In Der Bar" and you will see a man tumbling around in a laundromat dryer

frogbs, Wednesday, 19 October 2022 18:49 (one year ago) link

lol YES

J. Sam, Wednesday, 19 October 2022 19:17 (one year ago) link

Tristan in Der Dryer

J. Sam, Wednesday, 19 October 2022 19:51 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

listening to Sowiesoso yet again now and something that comes to mind is that a lot of this sounds like you're hearing the most incredible, cool, and joyous music ever but it's somewhere in the distance. so your mind fills in the blanks. like you know how some people say books are more intense than movies because your mind fills in images that will match the emotion? that it kind of what happens here. I think this is what James Ferraro was trying to do with all those lo-fi "Summer Headrush" albums.

frogbs, Thursday, 24 November 2022 04:27 (one year ago) link

yeah for sure it’s this sorta pointillist quality that it shares with the vibiest lofi stuff eg older James Ferraro and that amazing KWJAZ album. Walking through benevolent fog on a starlit night..

lets hear some blues on those synths (brimstead), Thursday, 24 November 2022 19:05 (one year ago) link

frogs u should listen to moebius's tonspuren if you haven't already, def has that childlike vibe

clouds, Thursday, 8 December 2022 16:46 (one year ago) link

oh yeah that one's on my wantlist. I recall hearing it once a while back and really liking it.

frogbs, Friday, 9 December 2022 20:33 (one year ago) link


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