Mr. Show with Bob and David: Genius or Overrated?

I like David Cross but there is something smug about him that grates sometimes. I far prefer Bob.

Oh yes, yes indeed.

the one and only sketch on the ben stiller show that reached the heights that mr.show reached regularly. and if he hadn't been able to do it on the stiller show it probably would have ended up on mr.show.

*bows in the direction of Mr. Seward, respectfully disagrees*

I realized it was trying to be that, but it just...wasn't. At least not constantly, not consistently, though it desperately tried hard (too hard?) to be that, forcing the humor and forcing quotes around 'loopy' and 'inspired' as a result. I saw a whole batch of episodes all at once and then a few here and there since and just...no, sorry, not more than wryly amusing here and there. Not *no* laughs, as I mention above -- Dalai Lama sketch, for instance, a definite winner. But gosh, so much of it could have been edited down, made dryer maybe...yeah, I'm not the guys actually getting up there and creating it all so I should talk, but if I find myself telling the show/sketch/actors to get on with it on a semi-regular basis then it's just not working for me, and listing a whole bunch of references won't convince me, much the same way that the huge list of injokes I can make from MST3K -- which to me just outstrips Mr. Show for laughs still, completely -- isn't going to convince someone who has seen a slew of episodes and just shrugged and moved on.

But yeah, there is the Cross factor. I love Odenkirk in Stiller, he seems dragged down and sprawling in Mr. Show = either Cross is even worse than I imagine him or the camaraderie on Stiller was a perfect secret weapon.

Anyway, Mr. Show doesn't work for me, you think the Kenna album sucks, and yet we are love. :-)

The one about Marijuana is one of the best things I've ever seen, but since every show changes into a million different bits, let me clarify that it's the one that starts off with Dave being high.

There are so many tiny details in Mr. Show to laugh at that most shows wouldn't bother to add. To say that Mr. Show was "trying to be" anything is assuming too much. It *was* a loopy and inspired show and if you see it as "trying to be" such, then I'd say you are projecting. It just is what it is.

Saying that the show was loopy and inspired because it was loopy and inspired is a bit glib. I don't doubt you like it at all and that you enjoy it very much, so can I ask that you consider the opposite point of view might have been derived from the same basic experience, ie watching the show? As I've had to point out on similar threads before, the very thread *title* invites debate, yes?

I actually didn't have much of a problem with Cross until I saw Mr. Show, to be honest -- I was completely neutral. Now, in combination with other things of his, I am not. Is that projecting or my reaction?

Anyway, onions. Yum!

You need to get on political TV talk shows.

(More seriously, what part of "I DO NOT THINK THE VAST MAJORITY OF IT WAS ENTERTAINING OR SUCCESSFUL AND THEREFORE SAYING SOMETHING LIKE 'YES, IT WAS ALL THOSE THINGS' FLATLY IS GOING TO MAKE ME GO 'OH RIGHT YOU ARE, I WILL DENY MY OWN EXPERIENCES IN ORDER TO SUIT YOUR REALITY" did you not understand? And why does the final line of your complaint remind me of all those messages Melody Maker used to get and print from aggreived attendees of concerts saying "Were you at the same show I was?!")

All I am saying is that it would make more sense for you to say that this approach to comedy didn't work for you because "it was a little too loopy and inspired to be funny", rather than to say they were "trying to be loopy and inspired but it just... wasn't." Because it was!

I don't know because they're completely different points. One is about experiencing a show and one is about experiencing the thought process behind-the-scenes of the show.

Honestly, I'm not much of one either. It's very easy to see why it's so liked, though -- I think I enjoy it much more as reference source!

i always thought that "trying too hard" atmosphere of mr.show was done on purpose. cuz the live stuff was SUPPOSED to resemble people trying desperately to stay on the air and be funny. I liked that live theatre aspect to it.

I like that explanation! That's a good way to think about it that I honestly hadn't thought of. I don't know if it'll help me see it in a new light but I'll keep it in mind should I run across an episode again in future.

rather than to say they were "trying to be loopy and inspired but it just... wasn't." Because it was!

Lemonade, you are conflating an admittedly more descriptive or at least harder to pin down point -- 'loopy,' which can be both positive or negative, and in this case I used in it a 'yeah, it's 'loopy,' thanks whatever' sense -- with 'inspired,' which is clearly meant to be positive and which I specifically question in terms of how I feel about the show. If you can't accept that there is a difference in connotation then that's your own worry. Otherwise this boils down to:

YOU: "It was inspired!"

ME: "I don't think it was inspired, despite your claiming otherwise."

YOU: "But it was inspired!"

ME: "I agree you think it was inspired, but I don't believe so."

YOU: "But it was inspired!"

ME: *looks for some Sonic Youth to listen to instead*

I am FAR from arguing I'm a perfect arguer on these boards here, as folks like the good Mr. Miccio and Mr. Chow and others have, I think quite rightly, pointed out. But can you see where this is breaking down a bit?

*places Lemonade in scriptwriting session for Mr. Show, in safe sealed suit to protect him from the hot wind emanating from Mr. Cross's mouth*

WRITERS: *write write write argue suggest finalize*

LEMONADE: "It's so inspired!" (*leaves, honestly appreciating and enjoying what has been seen and heard*)

*episode airs, featuring a variety of elements; Ned watches it and happens to find it wanting*

LEMONADE: "Wasn't that inspired?"

NED: "Well, no."

LEMONADE: "IT WAS INSPIRED! YOU CANNOT DESCRIBE IT AS ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE BY DEFINITION IT IS INSPIRED!"

NED: *flips through old Melody Maker to find that one interview with Chris Morris*

See, it WAS inspired! :D

xpost *THANK* you Scott. I fully agree with Scott about the tradition Mr. Show exists in, we disagree over it turned out with said show. He I'm sure finds it inspired and doubtless inspiring, I don't. Etc. etc.

(Lemonade, there's this thing called 'radical subjectivity' which I encourage you to search the archives for, though more on ILM.)

Lemonade, you may draw what you like from that as you will. I am not asking you to change your way of thinking, believe it or not, but I would like to ask you to consider how mine works.

Anyway, I found this: Does subjectivity really have a place in a serious argument concerning music? and... long drawn out philosophy made simple: I think everyone has an opinion but outside of those opinions all we have are certain words to describe reality objectively. Perhaps "inspired" is too esoteric a word choice to argue a point. I think the show is definitely loopy and has a unique draw that may not appeal to everyone. How's that? Boring? :D

Not sure which part of “Mr. Show actor arrested in coup attempt by President Donald Trump, who was defeated by Joe Biden” would have surprised me most back then

THR has obtained a photo of Jay Johnston from a party last October in which he appeared to be dressed as the so-called "Qanon Shaman," who previously pled guilty to storming the Capitol on Jan. 6

https://i.imgur.com/slxf9PS.jpg

Odenkirk's range is insane. he was so good playing a ditzy hunk lawyer on Seinfeld. and then a porn star on Curb. actually I really admire how a dude who's so naturally funny was willing to be the straight man so often.

not a lot of evidence these days that the arc of the universe bends towards justice, but Bob Odenkirk got to star in a prestige drama where he could show off his full range, develop it further, and get numerous accolades for it.

he also got to be on Dr. Katz a couple times

xp and he got to cheat death recently.

and got to make his own John Wick movie

Nobody was so much fun

Meanwhile, David Cross just gets to sit around collecting Alvin and the Chipmunk movie residuals while hoping no one brings up the fact that he used to be best friends with Gavin McInnes.

it's pretty wild to imagine that one of the greatest TV dramas ever made was nearly forced to just end on a massive cliffhanger because one of the Mr. Show guys had a heart attack

They could have just replaced Bob with David. No one would have noticed.

Good find, somebody:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBsRvdHJUDk

Hank Dobson's Mini-Mart & Country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSqALwnF2QA

haha, i'm not much of a podcast listener but i just skipped to the middle to get the gist of it and bob was sharing his theory (or really, just the facts) that when a murder takes place on a tv show or movie, that murder actually happened in real life