People who insist that they hate the Beatles - C or D?

PF I think you've misread me. I was saying that people who like everything the Beatles did are mentalists, not that you had to like everything they did to like them. I like them and I think they made some quite bad records.

The mythology/context thing cuts both ways. Some people hate the Beatles because of what they have come to stand for critically, yes - these people can't listen to the records 'objectively' but who can or would want to listen to any records 'objectively'. But lots of people who love the Beatles love them because of the idea of what they achieved and what they were first to do - surely as valid/invalid a reason as hating them because of context.

If the Beatles' records have a certain 'Beatlish' quality (I'm not sure they do, I don't know all of them) which makes people like them then surely other people might dislike that quality too.

People who dislike the mythology of the Beatles could well be Beatles fans, I think I'd be wary of anyone who bought into it really.

Contra-dick-shun time:

I have like 10 Beatles albums but never listen to any, however. There's too much baggage there for me to even casually enjoy them without feeling the iceberg of their history-legacy breathing down on my neck, making me pressured to feel as if I should pay more attention to the lyrics/music/whatever, since its so "important." Listening to the Beatles is a ponderous task these days - shame on the mythologers!!

Also this is kind of off, the Beatles are not the tastes of society anymore. They are a historical event recorded in a specific way, over and over again.

Nowadays, though, you hardly ever hear about them, even in the music press its all Ramones and Velvet Underground and Television and so forth, which I suppose reflects the guitar music of its day just as the Beatles did in 1995-96. But does anyone out there (except possibly the Pinefox) really think they were the best band in the world ever? When was the last time any of you put their records on? Do the people out there really put Beatles records on as much as we are led to think they do?

I don't own any Beatles records... it feels like walking into a record shop and buying Revolver would be like admitting defeat, like admitting there's NOTHING else I want to buy in the entire shop. And it's a completely irrational feeling (like buying girl's drinks in the pub, heh heh).

But part of the reason why I asked it that way is that when I've run into people that say they hate the Beatles, they say it in an insistent way, like they're trying to lure someone into an argument. It didn't even really come up in conversation, they just kind of said it.

Matt I last put a Beatles record on on Wednesday. It was Abbey Road: I didn't enjoy it much.

A few years ago, as others have noted above, they seemed inescapable and the heavy rotation of their classics drove me crazy. I now find the Beatles thoroughly escapable and I have grown much more interested in actual 60s melodic pop (as opposed to 60s inflected melodic pop).

I quite like some of Revolver.

As PF says, maybe I'll work up a little hate in the future. It seems a bit pointless now.

I think one of the best 15 bands maybe. But I think most of the general public think that they're the best band ever.

**When was the last time any of you put their records on?**

Sunday - Anthology III to hear 'Come And Get It'. I ended up playing the whole of both CDs

**Do the people out there really put Beatles records on as much as we are led to think they do?**

Yes.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being suspicious of them because of the whole mythology, or anything wrong with trying them and not liking them. But I am quite staggered that so many folks here have such a *thing* about not even trying them out. Especially people with an ear for pop. I just don't understand it. Just grab a copy of Abbey Road/Revolver/Help/White Album - no-one will laugh at you, and it's not compulsory to buy the anthologies on DVD as well - just treat them like any other artist. For me,I admit I love them the mythology is optional; there are times when I've immersed myself in it, but mostly they're just *there* along with Abba, King Tubby, Chic, Joy Division, The Supremes..... all fucking great.

1. I do
2. Most weeks, I'm afraid
3. Why not?

This is different from what you then said, which was, um: "I was saying that people who like everything the Beatles did are mentalists, not that you had to like everything they did to like them."

I expect you can see the difference. But OK, it is not worth either of our precious times to bother about this point anymore. We both like the Beatles, anyway. Hooray.

I like the Doc's post too. And Tim H's, though he is saying something different.

Let's take sides: is that a valid or an invalid opinion? It seems bogus to me, more or less because, listening to the Beatles while reading the I-Mac book a few years ago this was really how I heard them.
But the effects of the book wore off, and there was no emotional connexion with these songs left over. So: claiming to hate them is a bit much, but certainly not dud.

I still don't like much that they did, but the only Beatle I actively dislike (musically) is McCartney.

one reason i don't feel bad about being an unabashed beatles lover anymore is that people who say they hate the beatles tend to big up the stones. recently i realized that no matter how many stones songs i say i like (and i do like a lot) i could never LOVE them, for so many reasons (mainly that i find their myth/reputation far more irritating than the beatles' ever was), and i do love the beatles. i could sell all my beatles albums tomorrow and use the money to buy every stones record i don't have and this would be no less true.

I don't hate the Beatles, but for me, it's the Beach Boys and the Kinks who I praise a lot more.

I often find the Kinks to be wildly overrated. Although I like them, I think.

anthology 2 (tape 2)

Who would dare, and risk getting trampled by hordes of indignant girls?

being familiar with www.ilxor.com means you know where all the Beatles haters are.

even so, I can go years and not hear a Beatles song and not feel incomplete or anything. Or I could, if such a thing were possible.

that's true...than I hear an obscurity like "All I Wanna Do" or "And Your Bird Can Sing" and remember.

Lennon apparently grew to hate hearing Beatles songs as they had bad associations for him (though he was proud of them).

I like the story of a flunky being despatched to find out who it was repeatedly playing Beatles records in the Dakota appartment block that was driving him mad.

I don't like "Stairway," but it ain't no thang, y'know

But, really, the question comes down to: if you're a professional music critic how much older favorites do you have to time to hear? I'm always hearing laments on how that Sharrock, Miles, Aretha, or Eno album never gets the attention it deserves because there's simply too much new shit to assess. I've heard enough Beatles in my lifetime to never hear another note, yet will sing or marvel anew when a song plays on a jukebox or friend's car.

Yeah, there again: love me some Led Zep, can't stand "Stairway". Blame classic rock radio. And the 15-year-olds.

Alfred OTM for like 10 posts in a row.

Anthony Burgess, in an essay on Marshall McLuhan:

"His adoration of the Beatles (always, to me, an index of intellectual unsoundness) is based presumably on their having become priests of electronics."

Typical jealous Manc.

let us all stand in awe of the intellectual giant who wrote the screenplay for jesus of nazareth

I like his work but yeah he does have the classic autodidact attitude problem. Looking forward to reading the Roger Lewis bio.

Brb petitioning to change my job title to Priest of Electronics

Burgess was a devotee of symphonic and chamber music and he wrote many pieces which were never popular, even among classical musicians and audiences, but thank god at least they were intellectually sound. This was one of his more twatish pronouncements and being a twat was one of Burgess's great talents.

Technically correct: the best kind of correct.