And, hey, "twee" wasn't even my word in the 1st place.
― Calling All Creeps! (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 00:05 (fifteen years ago) link
it's only the singer that makes me hate Joy Division, I beleive
― CaptainLorax, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 00:22 (fifteen years ago) link
Engwish whimsey
― open wide, come inside, it's apple butter (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 00:33 (fifteen years ago) link
Bike is twee, but it's visionary twee...but hurrah for Lucifer Sam which is nowhere near twee...
also, whatever the romanticizing tendencies of the fans, I was basically going by Valery's framework that Romanticism = sweeping gestures & grand statements, whereas Classicism = unity, focus, a small perfection.
I wonder if Valery's essay is on the Internet...
― when David becomes the new Goliath (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 00:56 (fifteen years ago) link
And they said this thread was stupid.
― open wide, come inside, it's apple butter (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 01:26 (fifteen years ago) link
I couldn't find it...
Valery = not stupid in the leastValery filtered thru Drugs A. Money = quite possibly verging on stupid :)
― when David becomes the new Goliath (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 01:29 (fifteen years ago) link
Your take on Valery's making me think that if PF's Dali then JD's not Giacometti but de Chirico.
― dad a, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 02:06 (fifteen years ago) link
kind of works...wiki describes him (de Chirico) as being influenced by Schopenhauer (not to mention his influence on Sylvia Plath, who certainly has affinities with Joy Division, and certainly would've been a huge fan had she been born in, say, 1962)
― when David becomes the new Goliath (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 02:12 (fifteen years ago) link
all i know is SOMEONE was listening to The Wall pretty heavy in 1979:
"Mother I tried please belief meI'm doing the best that I canI'm ashamed of the things I've been put throughI'm ashamed of the person I amIsolation, isolation, isolation"
― scott seward, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 02:21 (fifteen years ago) link
but hurrah for Lucifer Sam which is nowhere near twee.
Well it is about a kitty...
― Hideous Lump, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 04:31 (fifteen years ago) link
uhhhhhhhhhh joy division duh
― Someone Still Loves You Evan and Jaron (Tape Store), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 04:46 (fifteen years ago) link
i agree with geir (!), james polk, and sonofstan upthread -- this really ought to be a pink floyd vs. joy division/new order poll. the way it's set up now, pink floyd ought to be handicapped by lopping off the roger waters era ... or by tacking on the bernard sumner/new order years to joy division. otherwise, it's just counting on the fact that pink floyd didn't change their name after syd barrett left and overlooking the fact that new order WAS joy division (except without ian curtis).
― Ein kluges Äpfelchen (Eisbaer), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 10:36 (fifteen years ago) link
Saucerful of Secrets vs. Movement
― Ein kluges Äpfelchen (Eisbaer), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 10:42 (fifteen years ago) link
And fucker really was twee as shit a lot of the time (See Emily Play, Matilda Mother, The Gnome, Jugband Blues, freaking Bike, tons of stuff on the solo LPs)
Excuse me, "Jugband Blues" twee?!??!?!?
― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 10:44 (fifteen years ago) link
he was awfully apologetic for speaking his mind on "jugband blues," you know ... which is kinda twee if one overlooks the possibility that syd was being really sarcastic (which I for one think that he was).
― Ein kluges Äpfelchen (Eisbaer), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 10:47 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, that works a bit better doesn't it? That whole aura of creeping dread. And used on the cover of 'Thieves Like Us' obviously. We just need him to have pulled a Jacques Vaché for us before he went all neo-classicist.
― Yehudi Menudo (NickB), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 11:00 (fifteen years ago) link
Twee of Jugband most apparent in the delivery of "I'll do my loving in the winter."
― Calling All Creeps! (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 14:54 (fifteen years ago) link
Still don't see it
― Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 14:58 (fifteen years ago) link
that's okay
― Calling All Creeps! (contenderizer), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 15:00 (fifteen years ago) link
All this earnest chatter and no-one has made a Joy Division Bell gag yet? Sheesh guys!
― Yehudi Menudo (NickB), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 15:07 (fifteen years ago) link
joy division's a great band but come on
― kamerad, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 23:36 (fifteen years ago) link
joy division was the shit for 2 albums but pink floyd was the shit for 10 or something and yeah i can only listen to ian curtis for so long before i just want to listen to new order instead.
― shook pwns (omar little), Tuesday, 20 January 2009 23:42 (fifteen years ago) link
i used to hate Atom Heart Mother and now it makes sense to me. Suddenly unfocused orchestrations sound pretty cool. And Joy Division became a greater revelation to me when I heard the pre-Hannett recordings on Disc 3 of the box...and I always liked the albums...and The Final Cut remains one of my faves, so apparently my taste is fucked but maybe later I'll listen to Ummagumma and really get confused.
― smurfherder, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 23:57 (fifteen years ago) link
smurfherder, "the narrow way" parts 2 & 3 on 'umma gumma' are the jam
― kamerad, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 01:44 (fifteen years ago) link
Tee hee. I love it when people get on an "I HATE [BAND]" tip, it's so young teenage girl isn't it? I mean when I was 14 I had an "I HATE CULTURE CLUB" badge, god only knows why, they didn't consume me with rage I just thought it was cool to have something to hate on.
And every era will have something of the previous that people will brickbat, tbh its suprising Floyd still have milage in that regard seeing as these days its cool to like Genesis and suchlike.
― Trayce, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 02:12 (fifteen years ago) link
BTW, FWIW I'm not much of a fan of Pink Floyd *or* Joy Division. I only own one JD album and I dont think theyre much cop.
And Ian Curtis really was a dreaful singer.
hey now. ian curtis was the scott walker of manchester
― kamerad, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 02:30 (fifteen years ago) link
And?
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 02:58 (fifteen years ago) link
and nothing. pink floyd's still better
― kamerad, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 03:03 (fifteen years ago) link
Okay. I'm with you there.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 03:09 (fifteen years ago) link
FWIW, i don't think much of syd barrett or roger waters as singers either. david gilmour and rick wright had good voices though.
― Ein kluges Äpfelchen (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 05:01 (fifteen years ago) link
Which songs are sung by whom? I seriously can't tell!
― Sundar, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 05:09 (fifteen years ago) link
the one that goes "HOW DOES IT FEEALL" isn't Ian Curtis.
― james k polk, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 06:21 (fifteen years ago) link
syd = sings most of the songs on piper and "jugband blues"roger = sings most of the songs on animals, the wall, and "brain damage/eclipse"rick wright and david gilmour sound a bit alike -- wright's voice is higher and softer, gilmour's is lower and gruffer. e.g., gilmour sings lead on the verses, and wright sings backup on the bridges, for "time" and "us and them."
― Ein kluges Äpfelchen (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 06:50 (fifteen years ago) link
I love David Gilmour's voice but his guitar playing is even better. I think we all know who the real genius of the two from the second version of Pink Floyd is and it is not Roger Waters. Amused To Death showed the truth of his second banana ability.
― Dan Landings, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 20:35 (fifteen years ago) link
"Learning To Fly" is a surprisingly durable and awesome song from swansong-era Floyd.
― Barack You Like A Husseincane (HI DERE), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 20:37 (fifteen years ago) link
Just remember that every time you listen to Joy Division vocals you are also listening to Interpol and She Wants Revenge vocals...Joy Division fans must have similar voices themselves.. there has to be some Freudian explanation to why people enjoy that kind of singing or else people must be really good at tuning out all the vocal parts.
― CaptainLorax, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 20:41 (fifteen years ago) link
it took me a long time to be able to deal with Ian's vocals but it was worth the wait.
― brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 20:47 (fifteen years ago) link
IC's vocals, like Morrissey's, are a huge barrier for some people. But, as with Morrissey, once it clicks, you realize that he's an amazing and original singer.
― redmond, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 20:50 (fifteen years ago) link
well I was able to get into The Smiths and Arthur Russell - so I dunno about that theory (but maybe I just understand those vocals on a Freudian level? - I mean I do think they are quite good) - I'll quit posting about this
― CaptainLorax, Wednesday, 21 January 2009 20:58 (fifteen years ago) link
Ian Curtis never had the opportunity to grow out of his awkward phase the way Morrissey did (the singing on the Smiths' debut is markedly different from what he was doing on The Queen Is Dead), so it makes sense that people would have lingering issues with Joy Division on those grounds. It is definitely worth getting past that, though, as a lot of Joy Division's songs are just staggering.
― Barack You Like A Husseincane (HI DERE), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 21:01 (fifteen years ago) link
I understand Ian Curtis' vocals on a Freudian level.
― scourge of cords (Z S), Wednesday, 21 January 2009 21:35 (fifteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Friday, 23 January 2009 00:05 (fifteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Saturday, 24 January 2009 00:01 (fifteen years ago) link
These two seem equally matched to me, I was wondering what ILX thinks.
huh
― Tina Fey's narrative bonsai (I DIED), Saturday, 24 January 2009 00:02 (fifteen years ago) link
ILX agrees
A rogue moderator is editing polls with impunity
― I am using your worlds, Saturday, 24 January 2009 00:05 (fifteen years ago) link
WAU what a poll. Kinda like when James Brown & The Beatles were tied...
― Glow In The Dark (Bimble), Saturday, 24 January 2009 00:18 (fifteen years ago) link
wait what 42 ppl like pink floyd lol
― DavidM, Saturday, 24 January 2009 00:29 (fifteen years ago) link
wait what anybody likes joy division lol
― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Saturday, 24 January 2009 00:47 (fifteen years ago) link