Kickstarter / Bandcamp / etc - C or D?

I like Bandcamp over all, though their cutesy "See how we made that easy for you? That's right! We're your best pals for life. Uh huh!" ultra-user-friendly chat is kind of nauseating

true

kickstarter does a similar thing.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/legupmgmt/deacon-animal-collective-at-the-festival-in-the/comments

deacon animal collective at the festival in the comments

Sounds like the solution for a game of Clue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqZ65pUQxyQ

The primary misunderstanding, Dibb told me, is the belief that he received any of the $26,000. In reality, all of that money has gone directly to TEMEDT, he says. "I think the Kickstarter was up for a day or two before I realized that I felt incredibly uncomfortable about the idea of asking people to fund a trip for me to go to Africa... that's why the project turned into a charity thing."

http://pitchfork.com/news/48012-animal-collectives-deakin-apologizes-for-kickstarter-controversy-explains-delayed-solo-material/

I love how all these people I know are asking for 15K to produce an indie recording. I wish they would just be transparent about the whole thing and say "I know I easily record this myself w/some decent mics, a good room and pro tools, but I really want to spend three weeks in NY w/the guy who recorded band x". I'm going to hit all these guys up and kickstart a second iPad for my home and a summer trip to Kauai.

I really want to spend three weeks in NY w/the guy who recorded band x

what's wrong with that?

"I'VE GOT SOME PERFECTLY GOOD TIN CANS AND STRING RIGHT HERE"

what's wrong with that?

I just can't warm up to the idea of begging people on social media outlets to finance personal vanity projects.

And yes, purchasing your own mics and learning pro tools is totally equivalent to tin cans and strings.

I mean jesus christ get a subscription to tape op and figure it out.

I really want to spend three weeks in NY w/the guy who recorded band x

who would want to spend three weeks in NY with ray manzarek

lol

but for real, i think this every time i see a kickstarter for making a record. like, almost every other musician i know has spent the time to learn how to make good-sounding records themselves (and in the process acquired skills & gear that they'll be using for years to come), why can't you?

and i know that there are valid answers to that question (some musicians are just not cut out to be recording engineers too, some bands need to record together live in a good-sounding room) but it still bugs me, especially when the recording budgets seem inflated.

i've undoubtedly made this exact post before.

I just can't warm up to the idea of begging people on social media outlets to finance personal vanity projects.

And yes, purchasing your own mics and learning pro tools is totally equivalent to tin cans and strings.

― Darin, Friday, September 28, 2012 3:47 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I mean jesus christ get a subscription to tape op and figure it out.

― Darin, Friday, September 28, 2012 3:49 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Which is only going to cost you single digit thousands of dollars, 20x as much time, and produce a worse result?

yeah there really is, among unknown indie types, a bit of unspoken difference of philosiphies between people who really go out of their way to work w/ famous people or get together a budget for a 'name' studio/producer/etc. and people who happily work DIY or within their budget/peer group.

I have a subscription to Tape Op and have been recording at home for over 20 years. But it's cost me thousands of dollars and I'm just barely getting to the point where the stuff I'm recording is where I want it to be. If somebody wants to just focus on their writing and performing and not learn all of that stuff, then they're a lot smarter than I was. I'm pretty sure that Emitt Rhodes even admitted in a tapeop interview once that the home recording was a big distraction that ultimately slowed him down.

If a band has 1000 fans who are willing to give them $20 to fund the professional recording that they're dreaming of then why not?

xps

yeah there really is, among unknown indie types, a bit of unspoken difference of philosiphies between people who really go out of their way to work w/ famous people or get together a budget for a 'name' studio/producer/etc. and people who happily work DIY or within their budget/peer group.

But there's also a reasonable space in between those two positions. DIY doesn't have to be an ideology. Paying to have certain parts of the production taken care of professionally is not necessarily the same thing as working with a famous name.

I mean jesus christ get a subscription to tape op and figure it out.

― Darin, Friday, September 28, 2012 3:49 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Which is only going to cost you single digit thousands of dollars, 20x as much time, and produce a worse result?

I have a subscription to Tape Op and have been recording at home for over 20 years. But it's cost me thousands of dollars and I'm just barely getting to the point where the stuff I'm recording is where I want it to be.

hey guys i think you're paying too much for tape op, i get it for free

For some reason the Kickstarter backlash inspires some kind of rabid free-market feelings in me that I never feel in any other situation. If people want to give money to fund some ridiculous vanity project then they should. If people figure out how to convince others to fund their dumb vanity projects than more power to them! If you pledge money to some flakey indie artist to fund something that doesn't yet exist and that thing never actually materializes, caveat emptor.

oh yeah i know. but i HAVE known people who clashed over that. i knew a band who i think kinda broke up over the fact that the leader got the whole band to pay way more to have a an out-of-town 'name' mix their last record when everyone knew that someone more affordable in town could have done probably just as good a job for a fraction of the price. (xpost)

I don't even think 10K or 15K sounds like an especially bloated budget, name or no, although I've never been in a band that spent that much. We did one record for about $1500 including mastering, but there were serious problems with it because we rushed to record all the songs live in two days, leaving us very little time to get the sound of anything exactly right. Anyway I

uh sorry, about orphan "anyway I"

I have also been involved with the home-recording end of things a couple of times (not as engineer) and it can be kind of nightmarish. One record just sprawled for a year and never got finished. The other one just didn't sound right. It seems a little like doing your own car repair or home renovation -- it's just not going to work for everyone.

Anyway, I'm concerned that the kickstarter backlash leaves musicians at kind of an impasse. It used to be ok to sell music. Now that's not ok anymore. So there's this new model of asking fans to fund you. But those fans are going to decide what's too much to spend on a record, how much money you should make, what they think sounds extravagant in your budget, etc all from a distance. And if you succeed, then you look like a shitheel for using kickstarter anymore, even though, remember, it's not ok to sell your music.

OTM

Which is only going to cost you single digit thousands of dollars, 20x as much time, and produce a worse result?

Initially, yes - but in my experience, the quality/time factors improve exponentially each recording. And 15K (which seems to be the going rate for a kickstarter album pitch) buys you a LOT of good gear. Seems smarter to me to try and set yourself up in a sustainable situation where you can finance your own recordings DIY long as you want. I highly doubt anyone is getting KS cash for a second album.

I have a subscription to Tape Op and have been recording at home for over 20 years. But it's cost me thousands of dollars and I'm just barely getting to the point where the stuff I'm recording is where I want it to be. If somebody wants to just focus on their writing and performing and not learn all of that stuff, then they're a lot smarter than I was. I'm pretty sure that Emitt Rhodes even admitted in a tapeop interview once that the home recording was a big distraction that ultimately slowed him down.

Well, I guess everyone's mileage varies.

I'm just pissy about this lately, since I've been hit up repeatedly on FB for this sort of thing.

studio vs. home recording is definitely a very personal thing, everyone's gotta figure it out for themselves and obviously that involves money as well as the nature of their music and working methods. i'm fortunate to have a friend w/ a studio who's been generous w/ his time, but i also kind of dream of being self-sufficient enough someday to do home recordings that i'm happy with.

I'm also biased by living in NYC, where pretty much no one who is a musician lives in an apartment with a soundproofable extra room, or any kind of extra room.

Also I have a super nerdy affinity for all of the technical stuff and have since I was a young kid. Recording always seems easy and fun to me but I have a lot of friends who really don't have any aptitude for it at all. I think it's the sort of thing that can actually be quite difficult if you don't really enjoy it. Anyone can learn to get to a certain basic level but beyond that I can see how it would be overwhelming if it's not something you love.

i'm a big believer in home recording and being able to substitute time & care for money, but it's easier with electronic/sample-based music i do where many of the elements are in-the-box, and the acoustic sounds are sort of meant to show the limitations in recording. i recognize that it can be a headache to try to make a big-sounding guitar and drums record at home, although i definitely have friends who do it successfully.

I find getting decent drum recordings at home is still close to impossible. That's the one thing I wish I could outsource.

amen

fuck drums

I find getting decent drum recordings at home is still close to impossible. That's the one thing I wish I could outsource.

yeah, I think you glossed over the "good room" part of your original post a bit. easier said than done.

Try the Yeti Blue USB mic. You can place it pretty much anywhere in a room w a drum kit and it sounds really really good.

That's cool - I've been using a snow ball mic for demos on my computer for a few years... didn't know about the other mics.

It's crazy how good it sounds, for just over $100.

Yeah my bro has a Snowball and he loves it.

yeah, they're pretty great

Kickstarter has such a shaky business model, it's inevitable that a backlash would come. I'm surprised no one's started a blog tracking all the projects that haven't materialized and/or gifts that haven't been received. Maybe they have?

fuck drums

― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Friday, September 28, 2012 5:27 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

posts very much out of character!

i get decent drum sounds at home but then i have several thousand dollars of microphones helping me out

http://blog.bandcamp.com/2013/01/10/bandcamp-for-fans/

So... has anyone joined up? I have but I've not really bothered to use it yet.

yeah, though its usefulness beyond a reminder of purchases is yet to be revealed

i guess it's appropriate to mention in this thread that two of my favorite records of 2012 were kickstarter-funded numbers: driver friendly's bury a dream and the forecast's everybody left

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nLQK8uqcAY

The bandcamp fan pages are nice for some really basic social networking for artists at a small level. I bought some things that led to making a few connections with artists I like who bought my stuff in return. I think that works better than just emailing people out of the blue which can feel spammy. And I've found some good stuff by browsing though other people's collections. It's hard to tell if it will get better or worse the more popular it gets.