Depression and what it's really like

imo imo imo

that's a truth bomb

am i really smart?

well i am posting to ilx on a macbook pro.

― teh late great

lol, I'm not really sure how to respond to that

http://www.geek.com/var/www/geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/mac_vs_pc_2.png

late great otm

except that i didn't go to grad school and never had a dog

i really like buddhism, i used to read the heart and diamond sutras often and i've read a lot of pema chodron, and i like her, and i particularly like dt suzuki and alan watts even though that's not quite exactly the same thing

but even though i find that stuff has been useful for clarifying my intellectual ideas about life philosophy and reality and being and nothingness it's not really translated into a sense of contentment

then again i suppose they'd all say i need meditation too

Really? I never thought of Buddhism as an intellectual thing, so maybe that's the dif in effect (sure it's a billion other factors, too). What I got from it is that it's about our reality, but I'm a weird dude and hv been obsessed with death and existence since I was a kid, so maybe I'm doing something else with it, I've only read one book and just jumped off from there. Try and apply Buddhist ideas to daily life like a scientist performing and studying experiments, some of the stuff in there is pretty cool... I mean, it's evident without Buddhism, but it's like a trade study manual, I guess. YMMV, though, dunno how much of this is me. just wanna help.

I used to think I made my shitzu into the insecure catlike creature she is today... but dogs are stupid. telling myself that makes me forgive the way I act around them

there have been times when I've mixed absurdism with the buddhist teaching of *nothing matters* to great affect

loosely using effect/affect here is pleasing to me. now that's where we might differ (***J vs. ***P)

I think absurdism has been fundamental in my development, even before I knew what it meant

yeah i actually have been talking about that, we agree that my relentless negativity and self-criticism is a way to control the emotional stress of living w/ ups and downs by just making sure i'm always down

the late great, i would never have imagined you were a depressed guy. your online presence has always made you seem so sorted, interesting, creative and, yes, cool. i've always enjoyed your posts x

ps i'm on a massive downer myself "lol" but it's more to do with loneliness. i'm a p. social guy who has somehow ended up so closed off from people.

I'm in yr shoes jed :( I've let myself become really housebound, uninterested in "going out", I dont drive so I never do anyth8ing much spontaneous. I think living with an ex is offputting to new guys, and I'm sick of being single. Its ... getting to me a lot. Recently tried a few times to do things to fix this, only to fall on my face in humiliation.

oh i'm interested in going out! it's just that no one really contacts me to do so and i have made a concerted effect to be proactive it's just kinda fallen on deaf ears. hopefully it will pass. for you too trayce. i have a job interview tomorrow. at least, i think it's an interview? it might just be a chat...

Recently tried a few times to do things to fix this, only to fall on my face in humiliation.

perspective, tho -- i look at it more as dudes f'ing up.

i was going to go into a whole thing here but i'll refrain. suffice it to say that you needn't be coupled and you needn't settle for something half-assed just to be coupled.

Dats true. I dont know why of all things I'm letting *that* get to me when I could be improving myself practicing piano/drawing/catching up with friends. Gluh.

mookieproof is right

a lot of things have compounded on you of late and things feel are starting to feel futile and the mean voice in your head is getting more of an audience because you feel so down

it's worth it to the ppl out in the world who haven't met you yet to keep trying. and whether or not you meet boyz or beaus, you are not the sum of the bad voices in yr head

<3

-- the things other people point out to cheer me up are barely-disguised colossal failures (grad school)

i identify with this (and much of everything else you said, late great)

good news! i feel great this morning!

:-D

yay!

Awesome :)

I came back to this thread to say that the person whom suggested restarting a bicycle routine was otm

Yeah the main thing I notice in common amongst people who attest to white-knuckling this shit w/o meds is a fervent commitment to eating right and exercising a lot.

yeah even w/ meds exercise and diet are very helpful, but OTOH if i can push back on that, you don't want to break your ankle and then slide back into depression, so i don't think it's necessarily the silver bullet

i read about a recent significant study that questioned the efficacy of exercise in improving mental health but obviously there are a whole stack of other reasons why exercise is a good idea

My GP told me to get exercise. I was just all, now look.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/newsarticle-content/-/article_display_list/14089616/exercise-does-little-to-help-depression-says-study

but whether this proves to be accurate or not, if i was a GP i wd be telling people to exercise and not smoke and etc

lol pplains

yeah, i always seem to swing back into dep when i stop eating right and exercising. i can never hold down a good routine for more than 3 weeks. whether it is the exercise or just having something to do...

suspicious of that study to say the least

Always feel a GP saying "get more exercise" is like an IT on the phone saying "Have you restarted the modem?"

NV, there's an follow-up to that study on scientific american that states that "the people in the physical activity intervention did not end up exercising more than controls": what was happening was that people were being encouraged to exercise, not actually having their exercise monitored.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/scicurious-brain/2012/06/11/exercise-doesnt-help-depression-lets-take-a-real-look-at-that-study/

but, yeah, if i was a GP i think i'd be saying 'drink a reasonable amount of water, eat healthily, exercise, don't smoke, don't drink to excess' almost no matter what health issues were going on? that stuff is basic keeping-body-and-soul-together.

though, that said, i am trying to do things right right now and i don't feel better for it, only probably-not-worse.

(though i'm lucky in that when i am depressed i have pretty much no desire for alcohol or other drugs)

there's a lot to be said for not-worse! that not-worse-but-not-better period is when you let things slide because eh whats the point, but effect often not immediate

i totally believe exercise does a lot for depression, not least because a lot of depressed people worry about their bodies, lack serotonin and feel bad about not getting out of the house. exercising improves your self-image, releases happy endorphins and (if you're not doing a workout video) helps you get out of the house and connect w/ nature (if you're outside exercising) or meet new people (gym) or see interesting stuff (jogging in city)

but i also think there are probably people who already exercise a lot who are depressed, and that won't help them. and there's also sort of a plateau you reach (ime) where you can exercise as much as you want but you're not going to feel any better than you already do. in my case there were parental issues i hadn't dealt with that were just not being improved by more exercise (those issues dealt with now, thank goodness)

and i'm not kidding about exercise addiction! from wikipedia ..

Exercise addiction is thought to be related to the euphoric feelings resulting from the rapid release of endorphins that occurs during intense bouts of exercise. Although the evidence in not conclusive, there is a high correlation between exercise addiction and endorphins. Endorphins work by activating opiate receptors in the brain causing pain relief and are also correlated with causing euphoric feelings.[8] The decrease of pain and increase in euphoric feelings creates a positive feedback loop associated with exercise which is thought to be a cause of addiction. This feedback loop also helps to explain why intensity of exercise increases over time with exercise addiction. For individuals who exercise more frequently the effects of endorphins are decreased. A person with an exercise addiction will need to increase the frequency, intensity, and/or time of exercising to reach the desired euphoric feelings.[10]

but yeah, by all means, exercise!

in fact part of the reason i'm quitting my job is to cut down on my two hour round trip commute so that i can get home at a reasonable hour and have some time to exercise ... getting back on the bike regularly is my #2 or #3 priority this summer, more tennis too, and maybe try to pick up basketball again.

my life is massively better since i started exercising regularly a few years back, to some extent on a macro level, but just having something you can do that you know distracts you and brings a rush of endorphins, it's unbeatable.

for me, it's hard to tell where there is causation and correlation, if i'm using those 2 terms correctly. like, when i'm depressed i can't muster up the energy to exercise. i just think about how i should, and then feel horrible about it because instead i sit in front of the TV and eat buckets of ice cream. and when i'm feeling slightly better, i get the motivation to go the gym and then that post-exercise euphoria makes me feel even better, so maybe once you've felt well enough to go, you do end up feeling better, but i think you have to be feeling somewhat well to even go exercise, unless you've built it into your daily routine and HAVE to do it, like commuting via bike or something.

i don't get the endorphin rush thing but, yeah, it's nice to have something to do where you can distract yourself from yourself and feel like it's in a good cause.

I have a friend who doesn't even like the act of running but is doing all this jogging and marathons and shit because it helps fix her mind

theres no doubt exercise keeps people literally sane but when you're depressed going from couch -> running is seemingly insurmountable. oh and why this stupid dance we have to do with drs like 'I need to tell you the type of drug i need because by now i know but i need to pretend i don't need or want it for you to be okay with writing it.' I mean 'go execise' OKAY DOC!

When I used to get serious bouts of depression, exercising or not exercising didn't really matter and didn't change anything. Since I started meds a few years ago I find that not exercising for a week or so seems to make me feel sort of edgy and anxious and vaguely sad, but nothing like when I'd get before.

And after seeing what's happened to a relative lately I'm also really thankful that when I start to feel shitty I have no interest in booze or anything else.

I would *love* exercise to be a rush for me, but it really isnt. Its a painful diffcult thing to do thanks to fuqued up joints. But, I do persist, and I certainly always feel better after a long walk. I just wish I ever got this addictive rush ppl go on about. I dont get it with sugar either.

i dont get that rush either, i wouldn't worry about it - different people respond in different ways

for me its more about kind of idk...physical housekeeping that also has a knock on effect of some mental housekeeping - if you have joints issues, swimming is a good one to do, you also don't have to do it for that long, i try for 40 mins a day (i dont go *every* day, i aim to but it depends on schedule/busyness, i dont beat myself up if i dont go!)

not being a jerk but the rush thing only happens when you've pushed yourself a little beyond your limits ime, so if you're not getting it it may be that you need to build up to that.

No thats a fair point, and I will admit pushing myself is something i never do with exercise, so.

yeah, i always seem to swing back into dep when i stop eating right and exercising.

I can never work out if that's the case for me or if I stop eating right and exercising because I'm on a down-swing.

keep a lil food diary!...and like a mood one too, it will answer that question

I can tell usually because I stop exercising when the weather turns shitty, which in England happens on the regular, and then the bad mood comes in the week after. This thread inspired me to go for a run earlier though! And I will try to learn some in-door activities for if it gets rainy.

trayce that sux abt yr joints but there must be some sort of low-impact exercise you can handle? yoga?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPvmIxu-LSA