RIP Rykodisc.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:47 (eleven years ago) link
I hope they're the "unfutzed" versions.
― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:50 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno - the original version of "We're Only In It For the Money" is pretty horrible, really
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:53 (eleven years ago) link
sonically, I mean
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
Would like somebody to explain me the difference between remixing and remastering in the context of this news. When FZ did the CD releases of Ruben and the Jets and WOIIFTM with new bass & drum tracks, it's safe to say he did new mixes. There are fairly radical differences in LP and CD mixes of Hot Rats. But I imagine that most of the CD catalogue consisted of digital transfer of the original vinyl masters, right, without much fiddling around?
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:06 (eleven years ago) link
You have it right, Remastering is tracking down the best possible format of the final mixes of an album (in Zappa's case probably 1/2 or 1/4 inch analog tape reels and adding equalisation and/or compression & limiting to get the best overall sound and dynamics onto whichever format the recording is going to end up on. Of course the potential abuse of the process is a big issue in the digital age.
Remixing is loading the original unmixed master tapes onto whatever the relevant playback machine would be and repeating the process of mixing the album from scratch.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
The regular cds of Freak Out have a bunch of digital echo Frank added in the 80s. The reissue entitled MOFO has the og mix.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
I remember reading that he apparently dicked about with recordings other than Hot Rats and WOIIFTM too, that's where the UMRK Approved master tag came in.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:19 (eleven years ago) link
the version on cd with added slap bass is a whole new level of awful though
― zappi, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:38 (eleven years ago) link
hmmm, i seem to recall that the mixes of a lot of those 90s reissues had been futzed w/ by Zappa? wonder if these are the "original" mixes or whatever.
"futzed" is putting it mildly.
ReissuesIn 1984, Zappa prepared a remix of Cruising with Ruben & the Jets for its compact disc reissue and the vinyl box set The Old Masters I. The remix featured new rhythm tracks recorded by bassist Arthur Barrow and drummer Chad Wackerman, much as the 1984 remix of We're Only in It for the Money had featured. Zappa stated "The master tapes for Ruben and the Jets were in better shape, but since I liked the results on We're Only in it For the Money, I decided to do it on Ruben too. But those are the only two albums on which the original performances were replaced. I thought the important thing was the material itself."[2]After the remixing was announced, a $13 million lawsuit was filed against Zappa by Jimmy Carl Black, Bunk Gardner and Don Preston, who were later joined by Ray Collins, Art Tripp and Motorhead Sherwood, increasing the claim to $16.4 million, stating that they had received no royalties from Zappa since 1969.[2]In 2009, the original mix of the album was released as part of a compilation entitled Greasy Love Songs.[6]
In 1984, Zappa prepared a remix of Cruising with Ruben & the Jets for its compact disc reissue and the vinyl box set The Old Masters I. The remix featured new rhythm tracks recorded by bassist Arthur Barrow and drummer Chad Wackerman, much as the 1984 remix of We're Only in It for the Money had featured. Zappa stated "The master tapes for Ruben and the Jets were in better shape, but since I liked the results on We're Only in it For the Money, I decided to do it on Ruben too. But those are the only two albums on which the original performances were replaced. I thought the important thing was the material itself."[2]
After the remixing was announced, a $13 million lawsuit was filed against Zappa by Jimmy Carl Black, Bunk Gardner and Don Preston, who were later joined by Ray Collins, Art Tripp and Motorhead Sherwood, increasing the claim to $16.4 million, stating that they had received no royalties from Zappa since 1969.[2]
In 2009, the original mix of the album was released as part of a compilation entitled Greasy Love Songs.[6]
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:40 (eleven years ago) link
zappa was so nuts about that sort of thing, it seems. i remember reading something about the creation of "shut and play your guitar" (i think) where he would put guitar solos from, say, 1974 into a recording from 1981.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:43 (eleven years ago) link
He would lift guitar tracks from live recordings and drop them into studio based stuff, he did a whole track by layering elements from different recordings, Tink Runs Amok? He called it Xenochrony iirc.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:51 (eleven years ago) link
XENOCHRONY! Exciting. Bands that never were.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:53 (eleven years ago) link
"Rubber Shirt," from Sheik Yerbouti:
SPECIAL NOTE: The bass part is extracted froma four track master of a performance from Goteborg,Sweden 1974 which I had Patrick O"Hearn overdub ona medium tempo guitar solo track in 4/4. The notedchosen were more or less specified during the overdubsession, and so it was not completely an improvised"bass solo." A year and a half later, the bass track waspeeled off the Swedish master and transferred to onetrack of another studio 24 track master for a slow songin 11/4. The result of this experimental re-synchronization(the same technique was used on the Zoot Alluresalbum in "Friendly Little Finger") is the piece you arelistening to. All of the sensitive, interesting interplaybetween the bass and drums never actually happened ...also note, the guitar solo section of the song "Yo' Mama"on side four was done the same way.
One of my favorite Sheik Yerbouti tracks.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 22:59 (eleven years ago) link
I was just to talking to a big Zappaphile firend of mine, and he mentioned that some of the other "futzing" was undoing vintage edit jobs done to fit lp time constraints. He cited these two (and was only partially wrong):
Wiki on Hot Rats:
In 1987 Zappa remixed Hot Rats for re-issue on Compact Disc. "Willie the Pimp" is edited differently during the introduction and guitar solo. "The Gumbo Variations" has 4 minutes of additional material including an introduction and guitar and saxophone solo sections which were cut from the vinyl LP version. Piano and flute which were buried the LP mix of "Little Umbrellas" are prominent on the CD. Other differences include significant changes to the overall ambiance and dynamic range. The original mix was reissued in 2009 as a limited edition audiophile LP by Classic Records.
Wiki on Weasels...:
The CD version of the album features different versions of "Didja Get Any Onya?" and "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gas Mask", which featured music edited out of the LP versions. Some of this extra music was used (in a different studio recording) as the backing track for "The Blimp" on the Captain Beefheart album Trout Mask Replica, produced by Frank Zappa.
― Electro-Shock Rory (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 01:16 (eleven years ago) link
― zappi
I was trying to youtube some songs off it a few years back, and the only versions that came up were from this, which I hadn't been aware of before, and I was seriously appalled. Especially since the original WOIIFTM is one of my all-time faves.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:04 (eleven years ago) link
What he did to "Ruben & the Jets" was criminal
― Tom D (Tom D.), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:12 (eleven years ago) link
But it was his music, I suppose he could do what he liked with it
― Tom D (Tom D.), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:13 (eleven years ago) link
I was happy when the Family Trust rectified the Reuben redux last year.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:15 (eleven years ago) link
― Tom D (Tom D.)
the crimes of george lucas ('90s on)
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:20 (eleven years ago) link
They did? I must have missed this!
― Tom D (Tom D.), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:23 (eleven years ago) link
They released it as Greasy Love Songs.
http://www.zappa.com/fz/discography/2010greasylovesongs.html
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:27 (eleven years ago) link
The version of WOIIFTM that I first heard was the one with the new bass and drums, so for a long time I thought that was the original version. When I finally heard the real original I was quite shocked at the difference. I still hear the altered one as being the "right" one even though I know that's not right.
― Moodles, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:00 (eleven years ago) link
I used to think there were things to like about the 1984 mix, but...naaah. I don't think I've ever heard the original vinyl. I'd like to check it out sometime if there's a digital rip floating around somewhere, and compare it to the 1993 remix/remaster.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
one thing I like about the 1984 version is that it restored some pieces from the original recording that had been censored out by the record company
― Moodles, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
I wish there was a version of the original mixed with those excised bits added back in
― Moodles, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:50 (eleven years ago) link
original mix
Isn't that just that "don't come in me in me" is backwards on the original, forwards on the remix? I can't recall other instances.
― Soccer mom, hopeless and lost, in utter despair (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
There's also a verse in Mother People with the line "Shut your fucking mouth about the length of my hair" that's also backwards on the original.
― Moodles, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
Ah, yeah. Listening to Absolutely Free at the moment. Man, "Duke Of Prunes" marries such a beautiful melody to some of the most bizarre lyrics...
― Soccer mom, hopeless and lost, in utter despair (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
Its been about five years, maybe time again for me to dip my toes into Zappa. My last few attempts have been pretty unsuccessful, I seem to admire him more than I actually like his work.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
So many eras, so many styles, so much sorting the chaff to find the wheat. I used to listen to him a lot more than I do now, but every once in a while I'll just browse youtube and find something cool.
― Soccer mom, hopeless and lost, in utter despair (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe thats a good way to go about it. I used to work with a dude that owned everything he ever did, wish I still did so I could just borrow a random stack.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:05 (eleven years ago) link
FZ the composer rewards deep and repeated listening, FZ the lyricist and misanthrope doesn't (with a couple of rare exceptions). This album, FZ played on Baroque instruments by Ensemble Ambrosius, is really good:
http://open.spotify.com/album/40I3p7zHU7waQwZABZoiPr
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 20:10 (eleven years ago) link
i've come around to zappa a bit, but it seems like everytime i'm hearing some truly amazing superhuman music in comes some "funny" fake doo-wop or a dude with a mexican accent saying thing
― wack nerd zinging in the dead of night (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
Zappa in a nutshell
― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, I've got a soft spot for that kind of puerile genre-bending.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Thursday, 14 June 2012 00:20 (eleven years ago) link
When it comes to FZ, sometimes the smarm can charm, but it will just as often harm.
― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 14 June 2012 00:25 (eleven years ago) link
Sometimes both in the same song.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Thursday, 14 June 2012 00:34 (eleven years ago) link
Listening to this for the very first time, and grinning like an idiot. The side of Roxy and Elsewhere containing "Echidna" is one of my favorites, and this nails it beautifully. Thanks, WmC!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpalPoMZegw
― Soccer mom, hopeless and lost, in utter despair (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:01 (eleven years ago) link
Agreed with most of the above - Uncle Meat is such a frustrating album for exactly this reason. You can hear so much brilliance on there, but its also the point where he feels the need to ruin every beautiful thing he ever wrote with goofy vocals or terrible instrumentation or boring snippets of dialogue - I dig dudes that try to challenge their audience, but I feel like FZ just did it for its own sake. "Dog Breath" would be such an amazing composition if they just did it somewhat straight!!
― frogbs, Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
xpost
My pleasure! That Ambrosius album is just gorgeous, but some days I think Music by Frank Zappa by the Omnibus Wind Ensemble is even better. Too bad it's not on Spotify, but here is a short playlist of four of the pieces -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkgEFFBj6mc&feature=BFa&list=PL4F6D5A18F6CE6BAA
Inca Roads/Uncle Meat/No. 7/Black Page #2
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
Uncle Meat is a perfect album, imo, incl the lyrics and vocals.
― Biff Wellington (WmC), Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
Yep, I love Uncle Meat to death. Sprawling, yeah, but wonderful. I just watched this for the first time; I don't know anything about the Token Of His Extreme DVD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PewnFHIHzM
― Soccer mom, hopeless and lost, in utter despair (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 14 June 2012 15:26 (eleven years ago) link
Uncle Meat is definitely one of my favorites too, don't really see how it's ruined
― Moodles, Thursday, 14 June 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
I think my favorite FZ, in terms of writing, performance & production is Inca Roads
― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:27 (eleven years ago) link
I think my main problem with Zappa is that his jokes aren't funny
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:31 (eleven years ago) link
What about the snorks?
― timellison, Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
Lots of them were up until about 74.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
dunno what compelled Zappa to rip off the Smurfs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuCq0aZiPT0
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 June 2012 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
What would I get out of this that I wouldn’t get out of listening to an actual jazz band. Or going to see some classical thing, the symphony, the opera etc.
Party atmosphere, rock and roll gymnastics, cultural commentary and audience participation.
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:26 (three weeks ago) link
Oh wow, thanks!
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:37 (three weeks ago) link
I hate all that stuff, so I think I'll pass, thanks
Well, not quite, but mostly
No, I think you were right the first time.
― The Prime of the Ancient Minister (Tom D.), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:43 (three weeks ago) link
🥸
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 19:57 (three weeks ago) link
yeah go listen to an actual jazz band tbh
zappa is dead _and_ he smells funny
― Kate (rushomancy), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 20:54 (three weeks ago) link
What would I get out of this that I wouldn’t get out of listening to an actual jazz band.
you'd get something you won't get from, say, a bop combo, but George Duke's solo records of the 70s deliver basically all the same thrills you can get from Zappa stuff with only a fraction of the DO NOT WANT factor. however it should also be remembered that late in his life he released this, that this album's title and cover were a choice he made.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/George_Duke-Dukey_Treats.jpg
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 21:59 (three weeks ago) link
Stockholm Syndrome!
― nickn, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:35 (three weeks ago) link
Lol!
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:38 (three weeks ago) link
Try Make A Jazz Noise Here. Same band but almost entirely instrumental.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Tuesday, April 2, 2024 2:14 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
IMO I think this is the best thing he released from the best tour he did. Incredibly jealous you saw them on that tour, unperson.
― ヽ(´ー`)┌ (CompuPost), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:38 (three weeks ago) link
As a hater, I guess I might say the same
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:44 (three weeks ago) link
Virtuosi on recordings sometimes ill-used but live is a different story
― Make Me Smile (Come Around and See Me) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 22:45 (three weeks ago) link
The other '88 tour albums (Bway the Hard Way and Best Band You've Never Heard) are filled w/ gorgeous stuff, too, but there's still a lot of Zappa schtick to wade through. Make a Jazz Noise has always struck me as his his most straight-faced (aside from all orchestral stuff) – minimal silly stuff, minimal caustic songs, just a really, really tight band doing a lot of Zappa's best live material.
― ヽ(´ー`)┌ (CompuPost), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 23:00 (three weeks ago) link
There's a 5LP or 3CD box set of the Mothers live at the Whisky in 1968 coming out in June, but what's interesting about that is this, from the press release:
All vinyl was cut from hi-res digital file by Chris Bellman at Bernie Grundman Mastering in 2023 and is being pressed at Optimal: Media in Germany on BioVinyl, a new environment-friendly formulation and sustainable product made from bio-based PVC (polyvinyl chloride). The petroleum previously required for PVC production is replaced by recycling used cooking oil or industrial waste gases. Through the use of renewable energies and recycled raw materials, CO2 emissions are significantly reduced. More information about BioVinyl available here: https://www.optimal-media.com/en/news/biovinyl/
This is the first I've heard of this process. Anybody know more?
― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Friday, 19 April 2024 18:41 (four days ago) link
Huh. Interesting indeed!
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 19 April 2024 19:19 (four days ago) link