didn't remember making that post until i saw it referenced on excelsior thread. drunk.
apologies to jennifer lawrence, tha pumpsta and cocorosie.
― dylannn, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 12:39 (eleven years ago) link
lock thread!
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 13:33 (eleven years ago) link
press release for new Coco Rosie mentions song titles.
"Hairnet Paradise" and "Big and Black"
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 11 June 2015 17:38 (eight years ago) link
God, they're never going to stop are they?
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 11 June 2015 17:41 (eight years ago) link
lol
― DJP, Thursday, 11 June 2015 17:42 (eight years ago) link
could you imagine how many internet articles there would be about this if this happened today
― lil dork (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 11 June 2015 19:32 (eight years ago) link
57
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 11 June 2015 19:34 (eight years ago) link
remarkable they've managed to stay together for a decade
― Allen (etaeoe), Thursday, 11 June 2015 21:48 (eight years ago) link
I just watched that entire Latifah video
I think the dude that grabs her butt is played by Vinny from Naughty By Nature
Never caught that before
Also as long as this is ostensibly a thread about appropriation and whatnot, remember when 90s rappers like QL would sometimes affect a Jamaican accent just for the hell of it?
― Wimmels, Friday, 12 June 2015 01:20 (eight years ago) link
It's very likely Latifah's family has Caribbean roots.
― DJP, Friday, 12 June 2015 01:56 (eight years ago) link
During this time KRS-One also gained acclaim as one of the first MCs to incorporate Jamaican style into hip-hop, using the Zung gu zung melody, originally made famous by Yellowman in Jamaican dance halls earlier in the decade.[3] While KRS-One used Zunguzung styles in a more powerful and controversial manner, especially in his song titled "Remix for P is Free", he can still be credited as one of the more influential figures to bridge the gap between Jamaican music and American Hip-Hop.
p interesting imo
― Joan Crawford Loves Chachi, Friday, 12 June 2015 02:21 (eight years ago) link
Um hip hop and dancehall and reggae have been intertwined since, say, Jamaican DJ Kool Herc started hip hop in the Bronx
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 12 June 2015 04:07 (eight years ago) link
Not to mention how much dancehall by the 90s was already influenced by American hip hop, it's a complex process of years of cross pollinization that's really unfair and simplistic to characterize as appropriation
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 12 June 2015 04:11 (eight years ago) link
Cross pollination is fine, fake patois probably isn't if you have no direct link to the Caribbean - though this is getting away from the entirely noble thread purpose of clowning CocoRosie.
― Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 12 June 2015 07:18 (eight years ago) link
that's really unfair and simplistic to characterize as appropriation
tbf he characterised it as "appropriation and whatnot"
― appropriation and whatnot (stevie), Friday, 12 June 2015 09:02 (eight years ago) link
so nobody can do accents anymore, b/c they are "appropriation," and that's always bad? i'm sure there's a smarter response to that kind of idiocy, but all i've got at the moment is "fuck you."
― he quipped with heat (amateurist), Friday, 12 June 2015 09:12 (eight years ago) link
sry for fighting humorlessness with humorlessness but sometimes a man's got to step up
― he quipped with heat (amateurist), Friday, 12 June 2015 09:13 (eight years ago) link
how badly do you really want to do jamaican patois?
― appropriation and whatnot (stevie), Friday, 12 June 2015 09:13 (eight years ago) link
/want/ to do? i'm doing it right now, bwoy.
― he quipped with heat (amateurist), Friday, 12 June 2015 09:16 (eight years ago) link
"Probably isn't fine" = "always bad"?
How exactly is what he said incorrect? That shit is often disrespectful.
― tsrobodo, Friday, 12 June 2015 09:20 (eight years ago) link
Adopting the persona of someone from a different culture whose lived experience is not yours is rarely a good look - particularly, as if often the case, that persona is a reductive 'weed and guns' one that reinforces stereotypes about people from the Caribbean. It is appropriation by definition though whether that is always bad is open to debate.
― Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 12 June 2015 09:23 (eight years ago) link
well, that is certainly doing it badly. sharivari otm.
― appropriation and whatnot (stevie), Friday, 12 June 2015 09:24 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4XD5MTMACg
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Friday, 12 June 2015 10:03 (eight years ago) link
persona is a reductive 'weed and guns' one that reinforces stereotypes about people from the Caribbean
this has it 'twisted' (am i doing it right??!)
― j., Friday, 12 June 2015 13:47 (eight years ago) link
this is getting away from the entirely noble thread purpose of clowning CocoRosie.
― Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, June 12, 2015 7:18 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Wimmels, Friday, 12 June 2015 13:51 (eight years ago) link
Some weird ideas about hip hop itt
― Οὖτις, Friday, 12 June 2015 14:04 (eight years ago) link
I always thought KRS1 sounded like a dick on his faux Caribbean style chatting tracks. I can recall some member of London Posse saying as much in a 90's edition of HHC, he said something like "you come from London or The Yard and you can "chat", American rappers sound like wankers when they attempt it" or words to that effect.
― xelab, Friday, 12 June 2015 14:24 (eight years ago) link
i always thought he sounded cool. idk...
― hongro strulkington (dog latin), Friday, 12 June 2015 14:25 (eight years ago) link
Just Ice pulled it off better imo
― xelab, Friday, 12 June 2015 14:27 (eight years ago) link
persona is a reductive 'weed and guns' one that reinforces stereotypes about people from the Caribbeanthis has it 'twisted' (am i doing it right??!)
idk, i don't listen to as much hip-hop as a lot of ilxors but the prism US pop culture, including but not limited to a fair amount of rap, sees the Caribbean has always struck me as #problematic. It's all too often a binary between tourist-key-chain-rasta-hat-weed-vibez positivity and mock-Yardie doggerel. Even where it isn't, to me, performing 'as a West Indian' rather than performing music influenced by the West Indies often has the effect of reducing a culture to a set of badly-imitated vocal tics.
I'm fairly relaxed about appropriation in general - it's often a healthy and good thing to borrow / imitate and music would be much less interesting without it. This has always annoyed me, though.
― Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 12 June 2015 14:30 (eight years ago) link
The 90s stuff I was thinking about, beyond the QL clip upthread, was Black Moon, who iirc had a lot of 'bloodclaat / botzi bwoy' type lyrics. Also didn't intend for this to become a "thing," was just reminiscing after watching that Latifah video.
BTW, is Latifah dissing Boss in that third verse? Sure sounds like it.
― Wimmels, Friday, 12 June 2015 14:46 (eight years ago) link
xp i think it's more about showing flashes of afrocentricity, from within the home (american) culture? and the binary (unity and violence, say) is present in that one too. so the salient thing about patois or whatever is not that it constitutes an attempt to appropriate or imitate (or give accurate representation), but that it momentarily decenters or translates a primary experience with which it shares something.
― j., Friday, 12 June 2015 14:48 (eight years ago) link
Also there were Jamaican communities within NYC and even artists like say Super Cat who moved to the US and collaborated with hip hop guys and I'm sure there was a lot of crossover in the club scene between hip hop and dancehall audiences, this isn't exactly like Mick and the Stones doing cod reggae
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 12 June 2015 14:53 (eight years ago) link
xp That can be true in some cases. Rastafarianism is a unifying movement and referring back to pan-African themes that are more heavily developed in the Caribbean than a lot of other places can be very positive. I don't see that being the primary motivating factor in a lot of cases and, even where it is, it requires a level of engagement beyond surface cliches to not simply reinforce those surface cliches for the primary audience.
― Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 12 June 2015 15:02 (eight years ago) link
shit dude i ain't over here studying up on haile selassie, i think it's pretty plain?
but i think this goes for the less harmonious cultural transfer too.
― j., Friday, 12 June 2015 15:06 (eight years ago) link
a licky boom boom down
― example (crüt), Friday, 12 June 2015 15:07 (eight years ago) link
all bets are off when canada
― j., Friday, 12 June 2015 15:10 (eight years ago) link
Toronto had a huge/significant Jamaican community and reggae scene fyi
― Οὖτις, Friday, 12 June 2015 15:25 (eight years ago) link
think it's weird to take rappers to task (esp 80s/90s rappers) for quoting dancehall/adopting patois when rap was all about quotations and repurposing cultural signifiers AND the links between rap culture and Jamaican music culture go so very, very deep - right back to the beginning - with huge overlaps in audience, technological approaches, politics etc.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 12 June 2015 15:27 (eight years ago) link
haha i know they do it's just… who can say what anything means in canada
― j., Friday, 12 June 2015 15:29 (eight years ago) link
the 70's was kind of the peak of bad faux-caribbean accents. you could easily make a 10-disc box set out of bad fake/cod reggae/calypso tunes by white artists. it was an unstoppable force and i'll never understand why nobody even gave it a second thought.
― scott seward, Friday, 12 June 2015 15:34 (eight years ago) link
and lyrically, the vast majority of them were just as offensive as the accents.
― scott seward, Friday, 12 June 2015 15:35 (eight years ago) link
that's not what's at issue tho
― Οὖτις, Friday, 12 June 2015 15:39 (eight years ago) link
maybe it's thanks to having grown up with parents who played lots of ub40 and the police, but i kinda like cod reggae. i love real reggae too of course, but there's something about bad white reggae i can't help sort of loving for quite different reasons.
― hongro strulkington (dog latin), Friday, 12 June 2015 15:43 (eight years ago) link
ace of base were nazis
― goole, Friday, 12 June 2015 15:47 (eight years ago) link
eager to propagate the aryan race iirc
― Οὖτις, Friday, 12 June 2015 15:49 (eight years ago) link
All that she wantsIs another babyAnd to heil Hitler
― I Am Curious (Dolezal) (DJP), Friday, 12 June 2015 16:32 (eight years ago) link
― got bent (mild cheezed off vibes) (s.clover), Friday, 12 June 2015 16:41 (eight years ago) link
tbf only one member of Ace of Base was a neo-Nazi.
The guy seemed genuinely mortified that he'd had any involvement with far-right politics afterwards.
― Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 12 June 2015 16:42 (eight years ago) link
das racist is one of the worst rap acts ever
― Οὖτις, Friday, 12 June 2015 16:42 (eight years ago) link