the most important election of your lifetime: 2012 american general election thread

My optimism is short term to the extreme; that is, I can only be optimistic on an hour by hour basis. The farther out I go from right now, the more pessimistic I get.

that said, i blame congress for not impeaching bush back in 06/07 way more than i blame obama for not prosecuting anyone.

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 11 June 2012 20:59 (35 minutes ago) Permalink

Public opinion polls were more approving of impeachment than criminal prosecution fwiw.

prefer you go out the farther from left

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liberals shout great howling atavistic NOs way too often

Alleged liberals in office? Seem to go along with righties most of the time.

Q: Shall we prosecute members of the Bush administration for war crimes?

A: (howling atavistically): NO!

The problem is yeah by now it's obviously not just members of the Bush administration and there'd probably be people and agencies that O is working with currently and it'd just be a huge mess. I think we'd 100% pull out of Afghanistan and remove all our assassination drones before prosecution would ever be on the table.

As for should we prosecute all criminals? Hell yes. If not, then there's no respect for the law. Justice should be blind, it's what gives it legitimacy.

thing about argument that investigation of cheney et al would somehow mean that obama wouldn't have political capital to pass health care...:

the health care bill passed on a pretty strict party-line vote. after all the compromising and gutting that occurred before it even came to the floor in hopes of persuading some republicans, they didn't budge IIRC. so as long as there were dem majorities in both houses, health care reform was probably going to happen.

or am i being naïve?

there were plenty of procedural votes on various relevant committees that needed buy-in from a few republicans at early points in the process, before anybody was paying attention. remember when chuck grassley was holding the whole thing up? the final shape of the bill had enormous republican input (but not support) and nobody should be allowed to forget it.

it's conceivable that an even more heated partisan atmosphere that early in the term may have soured things like that, but that is very conjectural.

no court would convict Cheney and Bush, it's sort of a moot point

any cases would have just gone to the SC and gee I wonder how they would all vote

prosecutions also would have taken up the entire first term, if not longer

you're my defense secretary -- think of something

yeah, there wasn't much precedent for the kind of comprehensive investigations/prosecutions that would've been needed to do anything post-2008. it was a total non-starter. whereas there was a ton of precedent for impeaching bush and more than half the country would've cheered it on. pelosi's line about impeachment being 'off the table' infuriated me in '06 and still does.

you're my defense secretary -- think of something

well, I do have this targeted assassination drone program thing

and y'know it would be exceptionally difficult, almost impossible, to capture and arrest avid sportsman and dangerously violent psychopath like Dick Cheney soooo ... lemme whip up a top secret memo ... back in 10

lemme know if Harold Koh or David Addington can polish the draft.

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yeah pelosi angered me on that too.

still kind of hope karma (not that i believe in such a thing) catches up with cheney and he dies of a slow catheter leak or something.

have you seen his jaw? Permanently crooked.

eh Cheney's only got a couple years left, stolen heart is three sizes too small etc

you can always put that subpoena where his heart ought to be

it's conceivable that an even more heated partisan atmosphere that early in the term may have soured things like that, but that is very conjectural.

― goole, Monday, June 11, 2012 5:24 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you don't even have to look at the gop votes - an even more heated partisan atmosphere that early in the terms means fewer mod dems put their neck on the line, their seats already in play. this passed by a whisker. it wouldn't take much of anything.

anyway this is a rly dum discussion. if obama loses he will not be sitting by a fireplace someday thinking "damn shoulda gone after bush cronies", but he might be thinking "damn maybe if more smarmy rich dudes went to jail after highly public trials, I would not have lost to a smarmy rich dude."

y'know what mighta moved the impeachment ball? 20 million people blocking traffic. Yeah, dreamland, tra la. Impeach Obama.

there is really no wrong time for 20 million people to block traffic

it's nice to have you back

nice try iatee it's gonna take more than my old adversary to make me give a shit about this stuff right now. twist that waxy moustache you evil villain you

fuck ppl from the south

^^^ generally good advice, we're considerate lovers & cook good breakfasts

sold

otm

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UIXOn06Pz70/S6TtLLCOs6I/AAAAAAAAJ1g/kL745E84zSY/s800/Corned+Beef+Hash+with+Fried+Egg+500.jpg

man look at that good healthy backyard egg

there is really no wrong time for 20 million people to block traffic

― iatee, Monday, June 11, 2012 6:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

When I am driving a car, motherfucker

20 million people, I will run you down. trying to get my snack on

I marched against Iraq. iirc, there were tens of millions of protesters around the US & Europe on the same day, and I saw one picture of it on one news program and then we went to war

I suggest a weekday, preventing people from getting to work, striking etc. ie, interfering with the income of the Machine. And prepare to be eaten.

I suggest good media coverage, an informed electorate, and a giant companion on a magical flying motorcycle

The Federal Reserve said the median net worth of families plunged by 39 percent in just three years, from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010. That puts Americans roughly on par with where they were in 1992.

By contrast, the wealthiest families’ median net worth rose slightly.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/fed-americans-wealth-dropped-40-percent/2012/06/11/gJQAlIsCVV_story.html

The Federal Reserve said the median net worth of families plunged by 39 percent in just three years, from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010.

Jesus Christ this is a fucking brutal statistic.

you want a brutal statistic, click through to the Pew comparison of median household worth of whites vs blacks and hispanics

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files/2011/07/2011-wealth-gaps-24.png

jesus fuck

you can't lose wealth you actually didn't have ie lotsa house millionaires turned out not to be house millionaires

Romney's gonna get wealth to trickle down. He says (that when he's not working on his car elevator for his expanded mansion) that he's more in touch than Obama.

We're doomed

yeah, all those uppity minorities speculatin'

I mean you can cause all value is imaginary but it still needs to be put in perspective - comparing net worth to net worth *at the peak of an enormous bubble* is very misleading

xp

yr not wrong, but that doesn't explain the disparity in percentage loss b/w races.

yeah the disparity is insane. $6k a year?!

Eh, isn't that Net Worth, IE all of the money you have now, minus all your debts? I'm surprised it's positive!

(not that this is not holy shit, torches to the capitol stuff)

well wait, it's not "per year", is it? It's net worth, so amount in bank account + value of house + other assets - student loan/credit card/other crippling liabilities

despite having a decent job, my net worth is currently near the -70K mark thanks to student loans