Pink Floyd vs. Joy Division

Seems a bit arbitrary, though, even by the standards of ILM polls!

milk vs. portugal.

tangerines vs. dictionaries.

Astronauts vs. robots.

There's a lot that can be written. Who's the troll now?

No need to get defensive, what's the reasoning for the comparison?

David Gilmour was the Sawyer on Lost of 1970!

that's a valid q, redmond - how do they compare? like if it were "hawkwind vs. joy division" it'd be a "source vs. tributary" sort of thing (Peter Hook on record as a big Hawkwind fan and I seem to remember he'd said they all liked that stuff), or joy division vs. some other band who resemble them. as far as I can tell between pink floyd and joy division - they both play amplified instruments, they're both English. how do they compare otherwise?

Interested in redmond's answer but I'm guessing the lyrical angst and spacy synth-rock musical tendencies? Not saying it's an obvious or really close comparison.

Repetitive mechanical rhythms (more literally in PF's case).

Pink Floyd any day. Joy Division are terribly overrated, although they did some great stuff as New Order.

This thread makes me hate Pink Floyd more than I already do.

I'm voting pink floyd just to give bimble conniptions

Hahaha, I had this feeling someone was gonna say something like that. I was gonna mention how Johnny Rotten wore an "I Hate Pink Floyd" shirt back in the days of the Pistols, but ya know, later on he retracted it and said he liked them, so...the wind went out of my sails on that anecdote.

Pink Floyd bore me to tears. They never fail to bore me. Doesn't matter what record it is, from what era, they never fail to bore me.

i think you had to be there to really appreciate pink floyd. with joy division it seems different. their music hasn't aged. pink floyd's is very much the music of their time, basically the seventies.

If it was some kind of Barrett/Dead Guy vs. New Floyd/New Order vs. Newer Floyd/Newer Order kind of thing it would make some sense.

If the Televison Personalities had done a song "I Know Where Ian Curtis Is Dead"

Guy Pratt has played bass with both Electronic and Pink Floyd.

It would make more sense if it was Floyd V Joy Division/ New Order: 1 and a half/ two records and a bunch of singles of visionary power, singer 'leaves" followed by decades of unrelieved mediocrity (and terrible lyrics)

x post - kinda what he said

Dude I wasn't there to appreciate Floyd I just dig the sound coming out of the speakers when I play something like Summer '68 or Candy and a Currant Bun or Pillow of Winds etc. Admittedly, I don't have much use for them after Meddle (though I still haven't heard Animals.) I've just started getting into Joy Division but I agree with the above posters that I don't quite get the reasons for the comparison.

Bimble, you will come around on Floyd one day, I swear it.

love both of those photos, particularly maybe the look on mason's face in the floyd shot.

i'd rather vote for the misfits in the 'misfits v black sabbath' poll that I never created because I don't know how to create polls.

So "you had to be there" exactly when on Pink Floyd? In '67? '71? '73? '79?

your fingers had to have trembled as you inserted the 'momentary lapse of reason' CD into the tray the very day it came out.

Next poll: Beatles v. Boys Next Door

So "you had to be there" exactly when on Pink Floyd? In '67? '71? '73? '79?

Shoegaze vs Converse

Selzer, I'd like to think so. But let's not bank on it.

Faithless vs Faith no More

sub: Which one has the least faith?

I don't even understand how this is even a poll. That said JD no question. I hate PF - a lot.

Thank you, ENBB!

these were both my favorite bands at different points in my life (points not very far removed from each other, come to think of it). the angst of floyd is more adolescent, the angst of joy division more intellectual, both are pretentious in their own way.

I like everything by Floyd from Meddle through The Final Cut, to varying degrees (I hate the Syd Barrett stuff - in fact, I hate that whole school of whimsical Brit psych-pop). But the only JD song I can get through is "Transmission." So yeah, Floyd for me.

syd barrett floyd >> joy division >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post-barrett floyd

The sound of a kitten being fucked to death by a horse>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Syd Barrett Floyd

it's kind of a mystery to me that anyone can still stomach "classic" floyd; i'd rather throw my car radio out the window than ever be subjected to "money" or "wish you were here" or "brick in the wall" again.

x-post: whatever dude, i'll take sweetly melancholy edward lear-derived nursery rhymes over self-righteous, cloddy, plodding, dreary arena-friendly shit like later floyd any day.

They are both depressing.

That said, Floyd rules. With our without Syd. Without Waters, very bad.

Joy Division.

I'm surprised Pink Floyd gets praised as much as they do on ILM - in theory at least, they should be the *worst* *band* *ever*. Gods of classic rock + annoying fans + slow guitar music that you could never dance to.

Pink Floyd were probably the biggest wtf moment when I was a stereotypical teenager discovering classic rock. Their image: striking album covers, trippy drug music, millions of fans...doesn't match with reality: elevator music. It made me not want to do drugs.

that whole school of whimsical Brit psych-pop

This is like some of my favorite shit ever though I wish I knew more of it- been totally immersed in the Move lately- anyway, I don't know why I'm posting this here...

This does seem like a good place to post about The Move. Echo & The Bunnymen vs. Electric Light Orchestra?

Phil you are not my homey no more until you take back any bad shit you have ever thought about Barrett who is not "whimsical"

I mean I dig what you think it's about but it is not about that OK

I don't know, man - if there's darkness of the spirit there, that's swell, but it's darkness of the spirit in ruffly shirts, and I just can't hang. I will freely admit that some of the melodies to those songs are good ones, because I enjoyed the avant-metallers-cover-Barrett compilation Like Black Holes In The Sky quite a bit, but the originals just do nothing for me.

I like them both. I'll pick Floyd because they made more. I still put on meddle, animals, dark side, and wish...

Pink Floyd The Grateful Dead were probably the biggest wtf moment when I was a stereotypical teenager discovering classic rock. Their image: striking album covers, trippy drug music, millions of fans...doesn't match with reality: elevator music. It made me not want to do drugs.

FTFY

Joy Divison, c'mon. I like Pink Floyd and all, but Joy Division was a singular force. There aren't dozens of joy division cover bands criss-crossing the country playing 2 night sets at drug festivals, because they could never be imitated. There was nothing like Joy Division, before or since.

<blockquote>If the Televison Personalities had done a song "I Know Where Ian Curtis Is Dead"</blockquote>
This is funny to me.

Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars.

On that score, Floyd, easy, no question. I love Joy Division and all, but I've spent more time with Pink Floyd, and they've offered more in return. I jump ship at (or maybe after?) The Wall, but everything up to Dark Side is brilliant.
''

Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars. Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars. Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars. Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars. Seems like a fair comparison to me, not in that the bands are similar, but in that they're not. I mean, they're both hugely influential UK bands, and they each still represent an era and a musical/aesthetic point of view. But more to the point, they represent points of view that are often seen as being diametrically opposed to one another. So the poll asks us to take sides in yesterday's culture wars.

joy division live >>>>>> joy division >>> syd barrett floyd >>>>>>>>> post-barrett floyd

I'm inclined to agree with this.

i prob would too, though i've never heard any live JD.

apparently joy division >>><<< pinkfloyd

no way. joy division >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<pinkfloyd

Norm Coleman will see you people in court!

PiL greater than either!

i prob would too, though i've never heard any live JD.

Oh noes! The "collectors edition" of both Unknown Pleasures and Closer have an extra disk that's a whole live set, and they both kill.

Les Bains Douches is also pretty amazing.

joy division live >>>>>> joy division

I'm inclined to disagree. I love the production on the JD studio records, so many neat little tricks that I keep rediscovering.

They're two different equally overwhelming beasts. Listening to live JD at deafening volumes, especially the aforementioned Les Bains Douches, is adrenaline rush-inducing. And if you'd only heard the live stuff, for some reason, the otherworldliness of the studio recordings would be a bit shocking, I imagine.

do we have a thread live jd vs. studio jd? if not, i guess we need one. i would give a lot right now to see them live, i missed to see them at the time. the live cds and bootlegs are fine and huge but seeing them live would have been a very different story. has there ever been a band with such a powerful sound and such an obsessed singer? i don't think so.

The Eternal on the Preston 28 February 1980 live album -- the version without Hooky because the bass/bass amp/whatever has blown up -- is the single bleakest, most terrifying thing I will ever hear. Actually, that entire album is mind-fuckingly brilliant.

(I mean, obviously a load of that bleakness and terror is because you know what lay around the corner, but even so ...)

Yeah it's got In Utero appeal like that.

ilXor Last.fm group weekly chart for the week ending January 25, 2009

No. 1 Animal Collective

No. 2 Kanye West

No. 2 David Bowie

No. 4 Joy Division

No. 5 Radiohead

No. 6 The Beatles

No. 7 Fever Ray

No. 7 The Velvet Underground

No. 9 New Order

No. 10 Cut Copy

....
....
....
....
....
No. 217 Pink Floyd

proven by science????

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-15557211.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BBC606FFF-8194-4FFD-94EE-6864B504BC68%7D

How'd I miss this one? Just as well, really, as I don't think I could pick one over the other. Today, though, Joy Division wins.

freakish tie

i never believe the poll results on ILM. too many people with multiple accounts.

A tie? Oy vey.

think about it -- there are some striking similarities (besides the fact that they are four of my all-time favorite bands).

frankly, the comparison is really incomplete when you exclude New Order. because Floyd was quite a different band post-Syd (though with almost all of the same people), just like New Order was a very different band than New Order. and they BOTH discovered synths AND dance music ("another brick in the wall") AFTER ian/syd.

"Another Brick in the Wall" is not dance music. And that comp title (A Collection of Great Dance Songs) is, whaddya call it, ironical.

i was really trying to be funny ... but "another brick in the wall" IS set to a disco beat (or as close to one as these plodders could get).

Number 57 on the Billboard club play/dance chart in 1980, too. According to Dave Gilmour, "It wasn’t my idea to do disco music, it was Bob’s. He said to me, ‘Go to a couple of clubs and listen to what’s happening with disco music,’ so I forced myself out and listened to loud, four-to-the-bar bass drums and stuff and thought, Gawd, awful! Then we went back and tried to turn one of the [song’s] parts into one to those so it would be catchy."

Big of Gilmour to admit to being a reactionary tool.

I like the idea of him sitting in camouflage in the corner of a nightclub taking notes, too.

Camo was more echo and the bunnymen tho.

not liking disco music != being a reactionary tool xxp

The only singer worse than Ian Curtis is the mopey dork from Tindersticks .

I like that he was like "this sucks...I'd better write something just like it!"

Floyd was quite a different band post-Syd

"Post-Syd" encompasses the period from, basically, right after "Piper" hit the streets! He was barely useful during the recording of "Saucerful."

nd they BOTH discovered synths AND dance music ("another brick in the wall") AFTER ian/syd.

Uh, synths weren't really available when Syd was a contributing member of the band, so this is hardly an insight.

"run like hell" gots some of the disco beats up in it too. always wanted a full-on dance mix of it tbh.

oh anag I like you and enjoy your posts based on knowledge but in all honesty

not liking disco music = being a reactionary tool feels as close to a fact of nature as nature wanders

PS the subtext here is "don't argue u reactionary racist" [better chattin' about stuff u enjoy than the rest of the ingrasable onionverse]

wait are you saying I'm a reactionary racist

Dave Gilmour, then anybody who doesn't like disco, then anybody who wandered past when I was drunk.

dude I called AbitW & Run Like Hell disco-metal in some other thread and got heaps of scorn dumped on my noggin!

It's not scorn it's fear of rhythm

reactionary tools!

anyway, if I was calling you racist anagram it was very stupid of me and I'm very sorry. hard for me to decipher my own drunk posts, honestly. stand by my general assertion re. reactionariness of being anti-disco tho.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6PHI-UiOPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3RvAIJQh7g

no worries NV, peace

Probably the two bands I've spent the most time with in my life, maybe my two favorite bands, which isn't to say that I don't think Pink Floyd put out a lot of terrible stuff. I've always thought parts of Unknown Pleasures had eerie similarities to some of the darker/heavier tracks on The Wall, which for what it's worth, is exactly the kind of Pink Floyd stuff I don't rate too highly. Not sonically similar so much as some of those heavy foreboding minor chords.

In any case, Run Like Hell is definitely disco, and Pink Floyd have never been known for having taste. One of the most interesting things about them to me is just how insular they kept themselves. They say it in interviews, that they really didn't listen to any other bands and I think that helped them create a singular style and some innovate music, but also some dated/cheesy/silly stuff.

dude if Syd still had his marbles in '79, he totes wouldve been digging disco...

He was bigging up Slade in his last interview proper.