Sasha on Shadow, Diplo, Eminem & Minstrelsy

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i just posted what i was talkin bout up there go see http://gelandweave.blogspot.com/

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 01:58 (eighteen years ago) link

and yeah i know dayton fam speak about crack as much as cam but i tried to put down how its different

― 3, Saturday, 23 July 2005 02:02 (eighteen years ago) link

ill read that in a sec so this may be irrelevant. i liked the leroi shit. but i mean, i 1ce, drunk bought crack, and ppl ive told that story to seemed so dynamite receptive and so already laughing, like if you were telling a story abt some dumb mutual acquaintance who always does dumb shit, that i cant see crack as some ageold hustler glistening business independent of color

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 02:09 (eighteen years ago) link

oh i meant to append that that post itself acts like a boast

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 02:10 (eighteen years ago) link

This went a strange direction.
The Dips HARDLY have a stranglehold on the crack scene, as Micc notes Fat Joe likes to CALL himself Cooked Coke and Joey Crack and how could ya'll forget the 123456789... it's tha ten crack commandments from Frank White?

Also, more to the point, IT'S AN OBV. METAPHOR; as in: my rhymes and my style and my swagger and ME is as addictive as crack.

Of course, ILMers frontin' like they slang rock is nonsensical and cooked cocaine is a helluva drug and so forth but I don't recall anybody being this snooty and shameshame when it comes to Lou Reed/Kurt Cobain heroin-chic.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 04:06 (eighteen years ago) link

That's because ILX didn't start til like 2001! Plus it's my wife and its my life.

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 23 July 2005 04:16 (eighteen years ago) link

She's a fickle miccstress.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 04:19 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah i ws only talking abt crack in a real shielded way, abt crack to ppl who unfortunately might not have all fat joes records, i thot here it cld just be some vu bullshit of course, it did occur to me. still i think this, crack, its only a metaphor, shit that you, if you will, are pushin, is troubling. as if when a motherfucker hears cam equate himself w crack, if he does, its the same as cam equating himself w i dunno don juan, this allcap metaphor shit doesnt work, maybe, when the rapper and listener are different and have different agendas?

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 04:42 (eighteen years ago) link

That's likely true of ALL lyrics tho', no? And the glorification of bad behaviour is hardly new in pop music, right?
Still, point made.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 23 July 2005 04:53 (eighteen years ago) link

id be the 1st to admit say an affinity for glorification its just i dont think ppl cn straight or strait equate cam love w say loving jason pierce, wo making some unexamined assertions. im sure we cld agree that some things are true of all lyrics but my point, based on an impression, ws that dips appreciation, when its articulated, seems to be abt ignoring certain of their lyrics while isolating others, calling em bricolage

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 05:11 (eighteen years ago) link

haha that cld be true of all lyrical analysis then! just i find it selective in a curious way

― 006 (thoia), Saturday, 23 July 2005 05:14 (eighteen years ago) link

People are still missing the point that we're not getting worked up because dipset rap about crack. Its HOW they rap about it that intrigues/bothers/whatever us. And that doesn't mean that I dislike dipset's music. I don't. But I do have issues with elements of it.

And vahid, wtf is your problem with people liking music about swaggering?

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 19:38 (eighteen years ago) link

could someone link the Kris Exo piece on Purple Haze? Google doesn't turn anything up.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Saturday, 23 July 2005 19:58 (eighteen years ago) link

And vahid, wtf is your problem with people liking music about swaggering?

what the fuck, asshole, what the fuck

― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 23 July 2005 19:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Huh? That wasn't intended to be hostile!

― deej.., Saturday, 23 July 2005 20:04 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah, i know. my point = swagger can be sort of lame if you're not in the mood!

― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 23 July 2005 20:10 (eighteen years ago) link

dj if you hate crack then you hate fun!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 24 July 2005 00:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Sterling Clover: human crack in the flesh.

― deej.., Sunday, 24 July 2005 02:11 (eighteen years ago) link

You realize that "human crack in the flesh" basically translates into "asshole," right?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 24 July 2005 02:14 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah crack in the flesh or really humanized or like daytoday the concept prescribed crack is so difficult for me to imagine that i cant really comment, thinkin crack is abt everything but flesh. i disagree w mike, by the way

― 006 (thoia), Sunday, 24 July 2005 02:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Mister six, you're on some very next shit, so very next that I am almost ceasing to understand what the fuck you are saying.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Sunday, 24 July 2005 03:38 (eighteen years ago) link

i won't guess the personal motives of unnamed rap bloggers...but the crack epidemic hit hard and personally effected me but camron's take on it is so over-the-top and one-dimensional that it transformed it from a social problem to a personal joke. and isn't that a device of comedy/tragedy, like laughing at the void or smiling into the barrel of a gun? it's literal and metaphorical and absurd...empowering, destructive and alienating, but it also makes for really engaging ambivalence (and don't underestimate that as a drawing point). i guess that you have to weigh the issues of personal distance and class/race/ gender privilege, as well as being morally/culturally condescending vs. enabling destructive actions.

― s>c>, Sunday, 24 July 2005 08:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Sam you don't post on here often enough. OTM.

― deej.., Sunday, 24 July 2005 23:23 (eighteen years ago) link

xp yes forks i dont even remember writing that! but guess i meant i think of crack as science for gettin out of your skin

my thing is i dont think cam is that one dimensional on drugs, that even if its always heartless and fake its still appearing in and shaded by a number of contexts. i need to listen to the record again though! but i think w rap being so dense comparatively, so many lines, that its easy for ppl to poach on, here, cams non sequiturs and then to go back and revise or reduce everything he raps abt to those terms

but, sc, i like the way you highlight ambivalence cuz rap for me, theres always shit i remember v specifically and then other shit thats notional or that i suppose i sorta remember what it ws abt, what it ws like, inside every song

― 006 (thoia), Monday, 25 July 2005 00:14 (eighteen years ago) link

thinking back i guess purple hazes skits which im sure everyone wd jump over themselves to call horrible are enough, along w his gentility, to code everything cam says as an endorsement, as him sellin always, just i find whoevers buyin as scrambling to be buying something else

― 006 (thoia), Monday, 25 July 2005 00:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Fair enough. There's a lotta artistic people who either buy into or lived through some silly ass mythologies and disrespecting those myths is a lot like disrespecting their codes of belief. I just sorta shrug and try to steer myself on my own path, picking up what I like and dropping off what I don't. Cam'ron is an impressive rapper who makes bizarre logical jumps lyrically that are impressive and fun to follow ("Time to climb her: I climb behind vagina then I hymen-grind her" is insane); that's the appeal to me. The swagger is only part of it when it informs the lyrics ("You a stewardess ma? Good, I fly too").

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Monday, 25 July 2005 02:58 (eighteen years ago) link

So wait--if Diplo sold crack in particular geographic areas it would be OK for Florida to sound, uh, non-black, despite this being possibly a good thing since he himself is neither black nor a respector of black culture, whatever that is and whatever that means?

Kind of disappointed the discussion moved away from the racial characteristics of non-verbal expression and how this can be detected and toward some PMRI shit about Cam'ron making it seem cool to smoke crack. (If great tragedy can't be made into great comedy I'm packing up my things and going home.)

Does someone want to, you know, tie it all together for me?

― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 25 July 2005 17:03 (eighteen years ago) link

this 'comedy = tragedy' bullshit as an excuse for white ppl to laugh at black folks problems is some of the stupidest shit i have ever seen put forth on ilm, yall know that excuse counts for minstrel shows too right?? man who wants to hear a bunch of black ppl whine about slavery when you can get the 'entertainment' of step'n fetchit eating a watermelon

― 2, Monday, 25 July 2005 17:17 (eighteen years ago) link

i mean just to bring it full circle and all

― 2, Monday, 25 July 2005 17:20 (eighteen years ago) link

"camron's take on it is so over-the-top and one-dimensional that it transformed it from a social problem to a personal joke, and isn't that a device of comedy/tragedy, like laughing at the void or smiling into the barrel of a gun?"
http://www.ulwaf.com/Site-Images/Minstrel%20Show.gif

― 2, Monday, 25 July 2005 17:36 (eighteen years ago) link

not sayin cam is a minstrel but maybe the audience never changed

― 2, Monday, 25 July 2005 17:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Can black people not laugh at black people's problems, or is that disallowed too?

― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 25 July 2005 18:03 (eighteen years ago) link

And if black people can laugh at black people's problems, and black people can make jokes about their own problems, then how is a white listner supposed to react to what's clearly being presented as a joke? Nod thoughtfully and say, "Hmm, that's a very incisive comment on the racial problems that exist in America today"? We're talking about broadcasted music, not a subculture. Even if it's intended for a black audience, there's no reason to think it won't get into the dirty dirty hands of white people.

Alternately, are hip-hop artists supposed to carefully monitor the demographics of their audience and once it passes a certain percentage of white people stop being funny? I mean, in an ideal world, but...

― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 25 July 2005 18:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Finally, Eminem's career arc explained.

― yuengling participle (rotten03), Monday, 25 July 2005 18:16 (eighteen years ago) link

im not sayin this shit to rappers im sayin it to this huge audience of rich white hipster newjacks who gobble cams dick now but dont wanna hear anybody rappin about real shit- you dont earn the right to laugh at crack jokes thru blackness or being a dealer you earn it thru actually giving a fuck about what crack does in the first place

― 2, Monday, 25 July 2005 18:16 (eighteen years ago) link

i dunno im bein a dick here but this shit is foul to me

― 2, Monday, 25 July 2005 18:17 (eighteen years ago) link

you can earn the right to laugh at something? can you lose it later?

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 25 July 2005 18:25 (eighteen years ago) link

are there any rich white hipster newjacks who gobble cams dick but don't wanna hear anybody rapping about real shit?

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 25 July 2005 18:26 (eighteen years ago) link

usually 'real shit' is even more praised than 'inventive wordplay'

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 25 July 2005 18:28 (eighteen years ago) link

you can earn the right to laugh at something? can you lose it later?

Sure. Never heard of a ghetto pass? (I'm only partially joking)

But, what is real even? Is "I go on a lot of vacations and hang out with models" less real than "I remember well slinging rock on the corner?" Usually the actual fact of the matter is somewhere in between anyway, so it doesn't really make a difference except in the mind of the listener eating up the projected fantasy.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Monday, 25 July 2005 18:30 (eighteen years ago) link

yall know what i meant by real shit dont play like this

― 2, Monday, 25 July 2005 18:35 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm not always sure, actually. Or at least I don't like to assume. I wish you'd use a different adjective sometimes.

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 25 July 2005 18:38 (eighteen years ago) link

* I've been hearing a lot of DIP SET DIP SET hate recently. Yeah, yeah... I know they're corny, the pink, the no homo, whatever.... If I want to get my party on like Andrew W.K., I don't want some teary-eyed dude crying about feeling guilty about selling cocaine and seeing his moms getting her ass beat or some Al Sharpton Jr. spouting kill-the-white-man stuff, I want Cam and some Girls Just Wanna Have Fun jawns. DIP SET DIP SET DIP SET DIP SET!

― 2, Monday, 25 July 2005 18:51 (eighteen years ago) link

who said that?

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 25 July 2005 19:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Sounds like Nick

― Candicissima (candicissima), Monday, 25 July 2005 19:06 (eighteen years ago) link

i agree w/ 006-

actually i wouldnt even suggest that a cam record contributes directly to a crack problem, altho i think he and we are implicated in smthng larger that does, just saying my suspicion is cam fans of the blogger persuasion are basically getting off on it, and ignoring it publicly

haha xpost- http://governmentnames.blogspot.com/2004/07/yo-dizzawgs-saturday-night-was-off.html

― 2, Monday, 25 July 2005 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Haha. The infamous parody! I knew it sounded like him.

― Candicissima (candicissima), Monday, 25 July 2005 19:11 (eighteen years ago) link

plumdrank: http://hotx.com/jb/joebob07-14-96/moviepic.gif
plumdrank: peep game on candyman!
HotelOpera: like woah
plumdrank: word to chicago projects where my wardrobe costs more than the standard of living
HotelOpera: guy with a hook hand, if you're ever in NJ, holla at a brother.
plumdrank: he spun mad bees in my face and nuff disembowelling

― 2, Monday, 25 July 2005 19:19 (eighteen years ago) link

"peep game on gas prices!" was a phrase that for some reason stuck with me to the degree that I would quote it randomly in company that would clearly have no idea what I was referring to.

― deej.., Monday, 25 July 2005 19:28 (eighteen years ago) link

2-
I guess throwing up pictures of minstrel shows and calling me racist is a lot easier than making an actual argument against me. Cam'ron is funny because he wants to be funny, not because we're laughing at him. And if you don't think so, then you're not listening.

And do you think cocaine is exclusively a black problem? Do you that only blacks are misogynistic? Maybe you should check some of own assumptions, anonymous.

― s>c>, Monday, 25 July 2005 22:30 (eighteen years ago) link

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