OAKLAND

Wow, if that's the case, those three videos are pretty damning and he's gonna get 25+ years.

I'm not a potential juror unless this turns Federal, methinks, so I have no compunction saying that my prejudice is highly weighted towards a finding of murder.

Where are ILX's criminal defense lawyers when you need them?

Where are they trying the case?

What I would also love to know is if (ok, i'm going to try...) Meserhle was drug/alcohol tested upon returning to the station.

The charge I heard was 2nd degree murder, but the jury has leeway to convict on lesser counts of murder all the way down to involuntary manslaughter.

Alex, they're trying to move it out of Oakland (cf, Rodney King vs. LAPD).

I dunno where it's being tried, but if there's a single damned lesson to be learned from Rodney King, it shouldn't be Marin.

I want to reiterate the major (if not only) reason why this guy isn't going to get convicted of murder is that a) he's a cop and b) the guy he shot was black. Juries giving leeway to cop's abuses of power and letting latent racism color their verdicts is as old as time itself.

lib, no defense attorney will approach that video footage with any hope of an exoneration.

In many jurisdictions, such as in California, if the unintentional conduct amounts to such gross negligence as to amount to a willful or depraved indifference to human life, the mens rea may be considered to constitute malice. In such a case, the charged offense may be murder, often characterized as second degree murder.

Do you know examples of police being convicted of murder in similar situations, where the victim was white, Alex?

Except, Alex, the 'thin blue line' isn't likely to form around a guy who (a) was captrued committing his crime on tape, (b) never even bothered to submit to IA, and (c) essentially bailed on the whole scene. The BART cops are just as likely to be perfectly happy to throw this guy under the bus.

There's a general pro-cop bias in the SF area. No officer has been charged with even manslaughter in this area in a long, long time, if ever.

Maybe I'm just thinking of BART cops, tho.

"The BART cops are just as likely to be perfectly happy to throw this guy under the bus."

We'll see.

"Do you know examples of police being convicted of murder in similar situations, where the victim was white, Alex?"

No, do you?

I'm not arguing against you, Alex. I'm simply curious, and no, I don't know.

Well, you know they'll play at least a modicum of CYA and this is a two year vet, hardly a pillar of the force, and he's made them look like asses.

I hope you are right, but somehow I doubt you are.

Either way I don't think it pays to underestimate even without much BART cop cooperation that certain jurors might be inclined to view this cop's perspective of the threat posed by this guy/situation differently than you or I might.

Fair enough. I wonder how much the threat of civil unrest will weigh on them, too.

If the trial is moved away from the SF bay area, I don't think that civil unrest will matter one whit to the jurors.

They will certainly be instructed not to take that into account

"Fair enough. I wonder how much the threat of civil unrest will weigh on them, too."

I'm not convinced that would be a positive for conviction.

OAKLAND – BART’s initial probe into the fatal shooting New Year’s Day of an unarmed passenger by a transit agency police officer is under fire after recently released footage of the incident shows another officer punching the Hayward father in the head prior to the shooting.
On Jan. 12, BART announced it had completed its internal investigation into the death of 22-year-old Oscar Grant III. That afternoon, police Chief Gary Gee said only the shooter, former Officer Johannes Mehserle, was being investigated in connection with the incident. The other six officers on the Fruitvale station platform that morning had followed proper police procedure, Gee said.
But an amateur video clip that aired Friday on KTVU presents a different scenario, legal experts say. A second officer identified as Tony Pirone is shown punching Grant moments before the shooting in what appears to be a clear act of excessive police force, said Peter Keane, a police expert and professor at Golden Gate University Law School in The City.
Mehserle, 27, is accused of murder, but no other officers are facing disciplinary or other charges. The Alameda County District Attorney’s Office, which is prosecuting Mehserle, did not return calls for comment Monday. Mehserle is being held at Santa Rita Jail in Dublin and has pleaded not guilty.
The footage of Pirone punching Grant seems new to the case, but KTVU’s news director said Monday that the same clip has been available for viewing in full on its Web site since Jan. 6, less than a week before Gee publicly exonerated Pirone and the other officers present on the Fruitvale platform.
The question now is whether BART had missed seeing the footage of the punching incident during its investigation or had chosen to ignore it in order protect Pirone, experts say.
“If the police chief made that statement having seen this video ... the chief should be fired,” Keane said.
He also said if it’s discovered that officers witnessed the punching and chose not to report it to investigators, they “at a minimum” should lose their jobs.
“This is the most revealing of all the videos, the most damning,” he said.
Grant’s killing has sparked social unrest and led to rioting in Oakland.
Attorney John Burris, who’s representing Grant’s family in a $25 million claim against BART, said he’d “like to believe” BART investigators missed the punching incident while reviewing the available video footage.
“If they saw it, that’s a cover-up,” Burris said.
BART officials said they will conduct a “rigorous” internal-affairs investigation into Pirone’s actions. Repeated e-mails and phone calls asking whether the transit agency had missed seeing the punch during its initial investigation have not been returned.

There was a young man in the Houston area, Bellaire, that was shot in the back while he was on the ground after being stopped at his own house and falsely accused of having a stolen car. around the same time. He lived, but that was just chance.

there really haven't been any protests and it hasn't been a major media event. Here's a random article about it http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou090105_mh_bellaire_shooting_meeting.4059f425.html

Sometimes it feels like what happens in Houston isn't real to the national media.

I'm not trying to intrude on your local news, or your feelings about it. I don't know what it would be like to live where protests or riots take place when these things happen. I feel bad when it just passes by down here. It's a nation wide situation. Maybe the people of Oakland feel alone with these situations. and the people of Cincinnati. all of us.

wayyyyy off this ^^^^ subject, but I found this super disappointing and this is the oakland thread:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/24/DDMH11DRSK.DTL

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/03/bart.lawsuit/index.html

$50 million lawsuit filed in BART shooting case

(CNN) -- The family of a man slain by a former transit police officer filed a $50 million lawsuit Monday against officers involved in the New Year's Day shooting, the family's attorney told CNN affiliate KTVU.
The shooting of Oscar Grant III, an unarmed man, sparked large protests in Oakland.

The shooting of Oscar Grant III, an unarmed man, sparked large protests in Oakland.

The hefty price tag is double what the family's attorney originally asked for in its legal claim, which is the first step in filing a lawsuit. In the weeks after the shooting, John Burris, the victim's family attorney, filed a $25 million claim alleging wrongful death. Burris said he decided to raise the amount of the lawsuit after learning more about the shooting of 22-year-old Oscar Grant III on a platform of a Bay Area Rapid Transit train station.

"It is the most outrageous shooting, police-misconduct case I have ever been involved in," the veteran civil rights lawyer told the affiliate.

The lawsuit alleging wrongful death and violation of civil rights names then-Officer Johannes Mehserle, the BART police chief and other officers involved in the incident, Burris said.

The shooting drew national attention after grainy cell phone videos of the incident taken by a bystander began circulating on the Internet and news shows.

The video showed Mehserle, 27, pulling his gun and shooting Grant in the back as another officer kneeled on Grant.

Mehserle may have intended to draw and fire his Taser rather than his gun, according to a court filing by his attorney.

The shooting of the unarmed man sparked large protests in Oakland and led to the arrest of Mehserle on a murder charge.

So large protests.

this was exactly what our overflowing-with-money public transportation system needed

waiting to see what the financial damage from the "strong police presence" at all the protests is going to cost Oakland, and what huge budget cuts they're going to make.

I am reading a funny novel set in Oakland, Youth in Revolt.

never read it, though a friend recommended it to me years ago. Maybe I should read it.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/03/21/us/AP-Police-Shot-CA.html

ugh

3 of the 4 are now reported dead. Apparently this was really close to the East Oakland police station. It could be worse, they could have killed people on the healthy neighborhoods walking tour.

from AP: As for the slain shooting suspect, the father said, "The man was evidently terribly desperate. It is a sad story..."

father of the cop that got shot but is still alive

Kinda shocked here to hear reports of "celebrations" of the cops' deaths.

I'm not

4th officer dead

Shocked, not surprised.

did anyone hear about 5 murders going don on 12th st near 14th ave on march 4th? i rode past a roped off street and 2 coroners' vans on my way home, but i never saw anything about it in the news. but you'd think 5 murders in one day would merit news coverage. strange.

I think there was an Oscar Grant protest that day.

there was, and all the news i searched for on the net was about that... but still- 5 people murdered in an apartment building? that's practically a massacre, and the news loves calling things massacres.

^^ true that. Also, if someone is murdered in San Francisco it trumps a murder in Oakland.

Maybe a stupid question, but how do you know that 5 people were murdered?

i went to the crime stats website to look at how many murders there have been in the last 90 days within a mile from my house. i was curious, because it's not every day you see buildings roped off and coroner's vans on the ride home from work...

oh yeah, it's listed on the OPD crime stats report - guessing that since 4 of them all happened within minutes of each other and were either 1st degree or no type stated and the 5th was a half hour later and second degree, that the 5th murder was probably the person that killed the other four. Weird that there wasn't news about it, you're right!

also, i guess it seems flippant to mention, since the oakland thread has been devoted to loss of life lately, but the parkway is having its last hurrah right now. people are lined up around the block to get in. i, for one, am devastated not only at the loss of the parkway, but at the fact that this neighborhood looks like it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

my s.o. used to live in that neighborhood (near the Parkway) when it first opened, and it was a lot worse then than it is now. I think a lot of people who moved to Oakland in the last 3 or 4 years have moved to that neighborhood (at least most of the people I know), so I don't think it's going to go back to 1997 levels of dismal, at least in terms of crime.

http://uhurunews.com/event?resource_name=march-and-candlelight-vigil-for-lovelle-mixon-and-the-african-community

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/25/BADD16N9VP.DTL

This is some through-the-looking-glass shit.