Indefinite Detention? But I Have Soccer Practice at 4: U.S. Politics 2012

GG dissects, Part I (quoting the NYT) -- it's the New 'You Can Tell They're Vietcong Cuz They're Dead':

Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent....

The C.I.A. accounting has so troubled some administration officials outside the agency that they have brought their concerns to the White House. One called it “guilt by association” that has led to “deceptive” estimates of civilian casualties.

“It bothers me when they say there were seven guys, so they must all be militants,” the official said. “They count the corpses and they’re not really sure who they are.”

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/singleton/

You seem to be assuming that he cares more about being right about this bastard than angry about what lousy leaders we have. How clever.

ok I know you're not talking to me

nice strawman for discrediting his critiques tho, hi5

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, May 29, 2012 3:56 PM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol this from Morbz

this is all awful, btw, but can't see it changing no matter how gets into office. there will be those that are shocked, but I think a lot americans are pretty cool with all of this.

how=who

most Americans are definitely pretty cool with it. because they are illiterate amoral savages.

anybody questions anything about this and someone will throw up video of a soldier skyping with this 4 year old daughter and then an american flag waving and they'll start crying and will buy a taco

I do see changing. I see it getting worse with every administration.

ie, Obama's fucking worse than Bush. Say it. You'll feel free.

i agree

but it doesn't really matter

and if you're nice about it Morbs'll give ya a cookie

lol that isn't true at all

xp

the meme taking hold on the right is that Obama a) is so scared of looking like a screwup w/r/t terrorism and b) tied his own hands by moral preening over torture/gitmo, that he is killing everybody he can in tyrannical fashion instead of capturing them.

i think a) has a ring of truth to it

Obama's ending Bush's wars and hasn't started any new ones iirc

xp

well there's yemen. and lybia.

er libya

like I'm all against targeted assassinations and this ridiculous drone program etc but let's not even pretend that they're on the scale (either in terms of people killed or economic costs or resulting political instability or any metric really) of invading Iraq and Afghanistan.

xp

yeah Libya what a disaster, with our zero troops committed and goals accomplished with minimal expense and whatnot

haven't invaded Yemen iirc

"ending"

Can TGWOT be over by the time I go to the airport next month, Shakey?

the meme taking hold on the right is that Obama a) is so scared of looking like a screwup w/r/t terrorism and b) tied his own hands by moral preening over torture/gitmo, that he is killing everybody he can in tyrannical fashion instead of capturing them.

i think a) has a ring of truth to it

(a) is the gist of the officials quoted in the NYT

TGWOT was a PR exercise that's already over since nobody mentions it anymore

goals accomplished with minimal expense

srsly, you need to become a savage full-fledged O-bot.

lol Morbz thinks we're going to be in Afghanistan past Obama's re-election in 2014. or do you think we're still at war in Iraq too

xp

I don't think this matters because the people will be behind it always, but I would like to see it have more prominence in the national conversation - or even just the more mainstream lefty one. Bill Maher's New Rules/Rant thing last week was decent in that it was all about the way in which Obama is basically a Republican and that it's the Progressives who should be angry about him, not the tea party/ted nugent, but I don't think he mentioned the war aspect at all (though last week they did have that reporter on there who's whole steez is the Greenwald/Morbz/we're using drones line).

I am not a savage full-fledged O-bot but dude there is a difference in scale between destroying the entire economy and killing tens of thousands of people and keepign the economy puttering along and killing a few thousand people. that is math. welcome to it.

xp

TGWOT was a PR exercise that's already over

I think those 6 future child terrorists we blew up this weekend prrrrrrrrrrobably would disagree.

that sounds like Jeremy Scahill, Gukbe

I know it's hard to maintain that permanent state of ever-escalating hysteria but sticking to facts is harder, I guess

xp

Gukbe, the Jack Ripper aspect of O's governance is the part Maher's OK with.

I think those 6 future child terrorists we blew up this weekend prrrrrrrrrrobably would disagree.

pretty sure they wouldn't call it the TWGOT since they wouldn't know/care/be aware of Dubya's preferred nomenclature - they would just call it standard US foreign policy

"Jack Ripper" is probably hysterical, let's stick to "Colonel Kilgore"

I know that Maher's a disgusting hawk on this shit, but I guess I'm using him as a lame figurehead for leftist mainstream media talking points.

It was him, cheers Alfred xpost

Bill Maher is not a leftist

he is in the larger American conversation

I think those 6 future child terrorists we blew up this weekend prrrrrrrrrrobably would disagree.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:12 PM (1 minute ago)

Oh, but you had me at "the inconvenience at the airport is going to be such a pain!"

I try to have a wide-ranging list of complaints, WmC, it's populist

he is in the larger American conversation

I don't think event his is true. dude is closer to libertarian/Ron Paul axis

B.M. gave a million dollars to Obama 2012 a few weeks back

lol I didn't know Maher was a PETA board member

that may explain why they kill all those animals

only with regards to weed/lager scale wars. he's deffo for the government upping spending on social welfare programs. but really, he's definitely perceived by most as a leftist, which was my original point (how much of this drone/anti-terrorism stuff is in the mainstream 'leftist'/dem conversation).

the liberal internet may grouse or just ignore him but bill maher is absolutely on "team liberal US"

Murder by drone is never discussed by the Cokie crowd.

from about 2:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXY8Mr5BhNk

anyway, i think it's telling that Obama gets criticized by the Right for stomping all over the constitution, but never for the times when he actually does, like this with all this Infinite Detention/Drone Warfare/Killing Our Citizens shit. they don't want to highlight it because they agree with all of that. I'll bet an awful lot of Democrats do as well. Democracy though...what are ya gonna do? Still better than the guy who thinks that "job-creators" are taxed too much.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TEr9pdCepMo/T8PpOnmhSYI/AAAAAAAAD_0/jRpId0qy0z4/s400/TMW2012-05-30colorKOS.png

Still better than the guy who thinks that "job-creators" are taxed too much.

don't be so sure that Obama doesn't think so, too. some of his "surrogates" appear to.

He's not a socialist into total wealth redistribution or anything, but raising the taxes on those over 250,000 has been his thing for a while now, and even Pelosi is turning on him for it.

lol u believe campaign "promises."

(sorry, don't mean to be snarky ... but i've seen enough of Change We Can Believe In in action to know better than to believe much of what he says on the campaign trail.)