OAKLAND

What, are you saying that speculation on the internets is no longer allowed???

Dearest libcrypt,

If the level of reduction, if you please allow me to remind you with your brilliant post immortalized upthread, of which the standard you judge thusly is this:

Mostly poor minorities destroying the autos of other poor minorities.

― ShamPowWow (libcrypt), Thursday, January 8, 2009 10:56 AM

Then I don't mind being criticized by you because, to be frank, you're a fucking idiot.

Besties,

Shasta

Yeah, it's definitely "covert racism" to mention that there were counterproductive elements to the protest, genius.

When you feel it's safe to come down off your pedestal, you should share your views with Myron Bell.

u just mad cause I am late on the pedestal rent this month.

"I think that racism was a factor in the killing, but I don't think that it's reducible to simple racism. I mean, it was wrong, but it wasn't a lynching."

I'm not saying racism was or wasn't a factor in the killings, I'm saying race (and the fact that the perpetrator was a cop) will be a major factor in whether or not the conviction will be for murder or not.

And if you don't believe that then I agree with Steve, you are a fucking idiot.

I'm not saying racism was or wasn't a factor in the killings, I'm saying race (and the fact that the perpetrator was a cop) will be a major factor in whether or not the conviction will be for murder or not.

Factor positively or negatively?

Okay you are a fucking idiot.

Okay you are a fucking idiot.

So nice had to say it twice.

*shrug* one less hottentot

Sorry, I still have the pedestal for the rest of this month. Ask Steve about Feb rentals.

It's too bad ILX can't have a reasonable discussion on the merits of the various cases without the SF clergy starting a game of fantasy stone tablet tossing.

Mostly poor clergymen destroying the discussions of other poor clergymen.

No offense, but I like to have my reasonable discussions with people who've demonstrated basic reading comprehension.

I'm not the only dude on this thread if you can't get over yrself.

That's pretty much the definition of "intent to kill" right there.

Not quite. Just to quibble, what will make it murder is shooting Mr. Grant not in the leg or hand but right in the back.

^^OTM

totally lolling at dude's not guilty plea btw

"Not quite."

True. I used a bit of shorthand there.

Not quite. Just to quibble, what will make it murder is shooting Mr. Grant not in the leg or hand but right in the back.

To my non-lawyerly reading, it looks like "voluntary manslaughter" is a set of exceptions to the qualifications for murder. That is to say, it's voluntary manslaughter if it falls under the definition of murder but there are a set of qualifying extenuating circumstances.

At least according to Wikipedia.

MW makes good point but this whole case hinges on what the cop says (sorry, I can't spell his last name) under cross-examination. Until the jury hears what his thoughts were prior to pulling the trigger, everything else is speculative. That's why he resigned prior to interview with IA, then pleaded the 5th so that there is no chance of that information leaking prior to trial.

ie, no trial by media.

So the question in my mind is whether such circumstances exist.

If his defense is that he mistook his pistol for his Taser (and generally acts like a moron from here on out), he can claim involuntary manslaughter, though I can't imagine a local jury's going to buy it. His lack of remorse following this is damning.

According to the talking voices on Forum this morning, the defendant isn't going to testify. So the jurors will have to ascertain his state of mind from his actions and the testimonies of the other officers and witnesses (most of which are still not public).

I can't say I know how they knew he wasn't going to testify, tho, 'cause I joined 15 min in.

Wow, if that's the case, those three videos are pretty damning and he's gonna get 25+ years.

I'm not a potential juror unless this turns Federal, methinks, so I have no compunction saying that my prejudice is highly weighted towards a finding of murder.

Where are ILX's criminal defense lawyers when you need them?

Where are they trying the case?

What I would also love to know is if (ok, i'm going to try...) Meserhle was drug/alcohol tested upon returning to the station.

The charge I heard was 2nd degree murder, but the jury has leeway to convict on lesser counts of murder all the way down to involuntary manslaughter.

Alex, they're trying to move it out of Oakland (cf, Rodney King vs. LAPD).

I dunno where it's being tried, but if there's a single damned lesson to be learned from Rodney King, it shouldn't be Marin.

I want to reiterate the major (if not only) reason why this guy isn't going to get convicted of murder is that a) he's a cop and b) the guy he shot was black. Juries giving leeway to cop's abuses of power and letting latent racism color their verdicts is as old as time itself.

lib, no defense attorney will approach that video footage with any hope of an exoneration.

In many jurisdictions, such as in California, if the unintentional conduct amounts to such gross negligence as to amount to a willful or depraved indifference to human life, the mens rea may be considered to constitute malice. In such a case, the charged offense may be murder, often characterized as second degree murder.

Do you know examples of police being convicted of murder in similar situations, where the victim was white, Alex?

Except, Alex, the 'thin blue line' isn't likely to form around a guy who (a) was captrued committing his crime on tape, (b) never even bothered to submit to IA, and (c) essentially bailed on the whole scene. The BART cops are just as likely to be perfectly happy to throw this guy under the bus.

There's a general pro-cop bias in the SF area. No officer has been charged with even manslaughter in this area in a long, long time, if ever.

Maybe I'm just thinking of BART cops, tho.

"The BART cops are just as likely to be perfectly happy to throw this guy under the bus."

We'll see.

"Do you know examples of police being convicted of murder in similar situations, where the victim was white, Alex?"

No, do you?

I'm not arguing against you, Alex. I'm simply curious, and no, I don't know.

Well, you know they'll play at least a modicum of CYA and this is a two year vet, hardly a pillar of the force, and he's made them look like asses.

I hope you are right, but somehow I doubt you are.

Either way I don't think it pays to underestimate even without much BART cop cooperation that certain jurors might be inclined to view this cop's perspective of the threat posed by this guy/situation differently than you or I might.

Fair enough. I wonder how much the threat of civil unrest will weigh on them, too.