Just when you thought it was safe - OK CUPID PART 3: The Return of the WOO!

i'm in the dc area, and get chatted up from time to time, but usually in an off-putting way. Where are all those friendly, outgoing ppl hanging out?

Yeah, I'm in the DC area, and 40, and it does seem like a friendly but also a very young town.

i had a great time visiting dc this summer - the younger population seems a lot more, uhm, male than female and while it felt a bit like a sausage party everywhere i went it was kind of nice getting hit on by multiple attractive guys. new york is pretty much the opposite in terms of gender distribution, and men so rarely make an effort to hit on me (also ny dudes seem to have huge egos and i'm probably not hot enough to get them to make an effort).

er, last summer not this summer. though i am planning to go back to visit!

Hope you make it before Sept. when I move up North - would hang out with you and bat eyelids at innocent coffee drinkers trying to concentrate on their law assignments

yes! definitely, planning on coming down for a long weekend sometime this summer!

according to latest Census, DC gender breakdown is 53%/47% female/male.

according to wiki, 48% of Washingtonians live alone.

hmm i'm surprised by that but then again i was only there for a couple of days.

we need a DC FAP

Yes - there is a small fap core but it doesn't get together than often and a wider fap would be great. Two - one just because, and one for b-g's visit.

your letter to GoodKYGirl has been sent:

Hi There,
I don't mean to presume anything but I'm guessing you're from Kentucky? For the average guy your username will likely bring to mind KY lubricant, which based on your profile, I feel fairly certain that's not your intent. I don't mean to be vulgar here and really don't want to offend you; just thought it was something no one else is likely to point out to you and that it runs counter to your stated intent of finding a life partner.
Unless I'm being a dope and you're a more snarky type than you seem.
Either way, best of luck on your hunt.

lol, she wrote back immediately and now we're having a conversation. Different end goals so I'm not angling for a date but who would've thought that would be a good icebreaker.

it was pretty slick.

you dog

What if she had replied "actually I am a lube fetishist".

kiddie pool of petroleum jelly in the basement

someone sent me a message today going through all my pictures and critiquing how i look in them :(

smooth estela, smooth

a new form to negging i never considered!

Yeah ive had maybe one or 2 comments on band tshirts but nothing like that! Were they all unpleasant comments? :(

Cute dorky girl wants to talk about the Beasties Boys and Dr Who, thanks OK Cupid.

Female friend got a "this person chose you" message from this user http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Roboflaps. His main pic was this one

http://i.imgur.com/9qSpc.jpg

and she didn't read the profile closely, so she didn't realize the deal and was horrified.

I dunno if the discussion w/ Lee has been put to bed, but chatting someone up at a coffee shop, public transit, or grocery store seems verboten, not just b/c of concerns about creeping that e.mily and DWH mentioned*, but b/c city living is kind of about minding your own business. The people at the tea shop, Starbucks, or the cafe are either there w/ friends or they are doing their own thing like reading a book, listening to something on headphones, or using a computer. Trying to shoot the shit would be a pretty clear faux pas (even though if someone cool chatted me up, I'd think that was kind of awesome).

* e.g.: And yeah, some people just aren't socially confident enough to approach others in bars or coffee shops or whatever, which you seem to take for granted as an ability. To say nothing of such approaches often being unwanted, particularly by women who are far too often seen to be fair game for street hassle.

some of the comments were nice, but made me feel like a piece of meat. the others were mean or negative.

however, i have been chatting with a guy who plays percussion in orchestras and went to juilliard who seems pretty cool.

Je55e, I quote from my earlier post:

I want to come off as friendly and interesting, not smarmy. Tactfulness is everything; many bar patrons like meeting new people, but nobody wants to be crudely hit on.

Maybe I should have said "shooting the breeze" instead of "chatting up". When I do this I'm very careful NOT to be obtrusive or creepy, just sociable. I haven't found many people who object to others they don't know talking with them at parties or taverns. Also as I made clear earlier, I am very attuned to when approaching others or starting conversations is unwanted.

I don't agree that city living is partly about minding your own business. If I wanted to live where nobody I didn't know would talk to me, I'd move out to the country. It's precisely the ease of meeting new people and having lots of social opportunities that attracts me to urban areas. It's not accidental that my home is on the crossroads of downtown nightlife.

And no, I don't take "being socially confident enough to approach others" for granted. I was totally inept at this when I was younger. But I got tired of being lonely much of the time, so over time I learned how to do it (reasonably) well out of necessity, and confidence in these situations just builds on itself as you become better at it. It isn't difficult to see if someone really is interested in talking with you - they'll respond with a smile, engage themselves in the conversation responding with more than necessary to answer your questions, take an interest in your life, etc.

city living is kind of about minding your own business.

Absogoddamnlutely. And even if it isn't to you, rest assured it is to a hell of a lot of other people. Makes it hard to know who the exceptions are.

So someone completely gave the brush-off to my clearly stated caveat on OKC about not looking to date and not even being entirely sure why I still have an active profile and said she'd like to get a drink sometime. I admire her forthrightness (and told her as much) but I honestly can't tell if this is a "cast out wildly and see who bites" situation or if she was genuinely interested by anything in my profile. There was certainly no indication of the latter in her message, which sends up little red flags. But maybe going for a drink with a stranger wouldn't be literally the worst thing in the whole entire world. Sigh.

I guess I have a hard time determining if someone is being polite or if they really want to talk. It seems to me that in urban areas, a stranger saying hi is somewhat odd (not talking about a bar or party, which are very clearly made for talking to strangers). It could partly be a Midwest thing? But I thought the Northeast was known for people's coolness with strangers.

The big question that fucks me up every time is: What to talk about??? This is never a concern with established friends, with whom I'm ridiculously gregarious and verbose, but it's the opposite with new people. What DWH said - people I later became friends with telling me that I seemed standoffish before they knew me. - describes me. I can think of two examples from the past 6 months where now-friends said that they thought I really didn't care for them at first. I was shocked b/c I felt like I was showing interest and being friendly, and even *warm*!

xp

Well, if you go places alone you can strike up convos while waiting for coffee or at a bar. Like, you are talking to bartender, attractive person is too, and then bartender has to actually go work so you continue talking to the new person.

Unfortunately, then your dating life is like Cheers. I accidentally ended up dating the female version of Cliff for a bit.

Ha! That sounds both great and terrible

mh please please tell at least one anecdote about this...

Haha, seriously.

I don't randomly say "hi" to strangers either. If they seem interesting, I may briefly smile and nod or somehow acknowledge them as they pass by though. That signals approachability and a willingness to talk, if they're up for it (and only if they are, which is key to not being obtrusive or annoying).

> I guess I have a hard time determining if someone is being polite or if they really want to talk. ...... The big question that fucks me up every time is: What to talk about???

Whatever you obviously have in common is a good starting point (i.e. if you're in a queue at a concert venue, you start off knowing you like the same band). Even something mundane like a luncheon at the office cafeteria can be the starting point of hundreds of conversations (so which department do you work in? Do you like what you do? What's the best food you've been served here?)

And though it's often said to be good to "hunt for common ground" or look for shared interests upon meeting new people, I often find it's the uncommon ground that's more interesting - the things you are, have been to, or have done that the other person hasn't. If you don't have any obvious shared interests or worldviews, that only serves to make getting to know each other more interesting.

I find that most people upon first meeting them like to talk about whatever their interests are, so I usually steer the conversation in that direction. I leave it to the other person as to what to discuss. If you've established good rapport with a potential date, you can ask "tell me something interesting about yourself", or "what do you dream about"?, or my favourite, "what have you always wanted to do but have not yet done?" These sorts of questions usually get people to open up, and get them talking about their favorite things. And what's more, when you ask these sorts of questions, the other person will start to associate his or her favourite things and most fervent dreams with you, and in their mind you become the person that can help make those dreams become true. It shows them that no matter who they are and what they're like, that you appreciate their company and companionship, and accept them for who they really are.

i actually believe this is good advice, though the cynical part of me can't help but look at it like this is some kind of social game theory, creeptastic, esp. the last part where you actively campaign to immediate associate yourself positively on a shallow level

not judging, it's fascinating to me, as i am admittedly both an antisocial introvert yet also a total sucker for these tactics just as i have no idea what to do on either end of a conversation

I wouldn't be offended at all by those kinds of questions, but I think they'd paralyse me a bit - I'd feel a lot of pressure to be super-interesting or highly focused. I like just launching in with all the boring what-do-I-do what-do-you-do where-do-we-live oh-you're-a-Britisher-did-it-say-that-on-your-profile (no it didn't), and from there the little things emerge and you can take the conversation off somewhere less boring.

xpost

Yeah, this is probably why I'm such an introvert. I'm allergic to social interaction that feels in any way formulaic or forced. Which is pretty much what it has to be a lot of the time to get over the hump of not knowing people.

i actually believe this is good advice, though the cynical part of me can't help but look at it like this is some kind of social game theory, creeptastic, esp. the last part where you actively campaign to immediate associate yourself positively on a shallow level

Not at all game-playing and trying to be anything but shallow; indeed, i try to avoid the superficial and stick with meaningful things. Though not in an intrusive way that would be sure to scare people away of course. The whole point of talking about the other person's interests is so they don't feel uncomfortable or paralysed, letting them know you are sincerely taking an interest in their life, not trying to manipulate them.

not judging, it's fascinating to me, as i am admittedly both an antisocial introvert yet also a total sucker for these tactics just as i have no idea what to do on either end of a conversation

I sometimes wonder if the reason many introverts find being around others so draining or exhausting (especially if meeting unexpectedly) is that they incorrectly believe they have to be completely prepared and optimized for the experience. In real life, at any given time, most of us aren't nicely dressed, don't have our hair combed just right, haven't showered since the day before, and could stand to brush our teeth or to shave. I don't expect people to be at their best during a chance meeting. So often I'll ask if I can drop by a friend's house, only to hear "gee, I'd love to have you over but I'm so not ready, all my good clothes are in the laundry and my living room is a mess and......". And I'll be like, "it's ok. I don't care how tidy your apartment is. I'm not here because I want to inspect your house. I'm here because I want to be with you". I think if most people understood they aren't being scrutinized about every aspect of whatever they're up to at the moment, they'd become alot more comfortable being around other people.

I wouldn't be offended at all by those kinds of questions, but I think they'd paralyse me a bit - I'd feel a lot of pressure to be super-interesting or highly focused

No need to try to be super-interesting. Please realize that, no matter how much you may not always feel that way or be aware of it, you are super-interesting, and you can make someone else happy just by being yourself.

that guy emailing u comments abt yr pics seems like a jackass.

i just got a message from someone who messaged me months ago (who seems unaware that he already messaged me), and the only reason i remember is because he used the same joke line of "if you don't email me back i'm sure it's b/c the internet is broken".

got a nice message from someone but took my time in responding b/c i'm lazy & didn't feel like logging on, and he no longer has an account. oops!

i'm trying to recommit to using this, i ignored it for a few months, but i feel a bit daunted.

I meet people by having a few drinks and then pardoning myself for correcting the inaccuracies in their conversations.

Wait, maybe I am Cliff

Whatever you obviously have in common is a good starting point (i.e. if you're in a queue at a concert venue, you start off knowing you like the same band). Even something mundane like a luncheon at the office cafeteria can be the starting point of hundreds of conversations (so which department do you work in? Do you like what you do? What's the best food you've been served here?)

I know that these are good suggestions and when I don't overthink a meeting, these starting points serve me well. Where I get mixed up is, my gut says, Ugh, how fucking obvious and I feel like the “I hope you saved some turkey for me" guy b/c like DWH, I'm allergic to social interaction that feels in any way formulaic or forced. But OTOH like DWH also said, Which is pretty much what it has to be a lot of the time to get over the hump of not knowing people. I mean, I SO appreciate meet 'n' greet/convention type functions b/c you know exactly what to start talking about.

The way I'm talking about myself here, I must sound like I'm socially disabled or like I'm dishing out challops. I'm not helpless or hopeless, but I feel like I'm missing some kind of social intelligence that is 2nd nature to most everyone else and it's frustrating. Good news is I'm going back into therapy and maybe I can learn how to turn off the hyperconsciousness of my every word and action.

Factor that is keying up my angst is that I'm going to have to give up drinking in just over a week and booze is a good self-consciousness solvent.

(Sorry I'm making this about ME - I am also interested in the generalities of what we're talking about and how it applies to others ITT.)

I don't care for formulaic or forced conversation either. So don't be formulaic! There's usually something you can couch even boring situations in that won't be cliched. Like instead of "i hope you saved some turkey for me" (which is presumptive as well as off-putting), maybe "some poor turkey gave its life so they could serve these stale ground turkey and spinach sandwiches". Well, maybe not, but you get the idea - frame the situation in some way that will be as interesting as possible. Like last week I saw someone at the pool dive off the 10-meter board, who later took a chair next to mine. I could have asked "do you like diving" or "where did you learn to dive" or some other question she's likely been asked dozens of times, but instead I asked "so what does it feel like free-falling head first for 4 seconds?" She told me in all the years she's been diving, she'd never been asked that, which was the feeling she craved that made her want to try diving in the first place. We talked for the next five minutes.

But don't fret if you can't think of something clever to say all the time. Most of us aren't expert conversationalists either, and nobody will expect you to be. It's fine to talk about anything that's halfway interesting, and you're probably more interesting than you realize.

I have basically 0% of a problem conversing with anyone I know at least a little bit. It's just hard for me to ever figure out something to say to a total stranger as, like, an initiation. OTOH, I can't really think of any OKC-initiated first dates that were at all awkward thanks to having the opportunity to chat with them a bit beforehand and get kind of an idea of what they were about prior to sitting face-to-face with someone who's basically a complete stranger.

I can also deal if a relative stranger does the initiating (I mentioned upthread how a barista or server in almost every business around my last place of work expressed an interest, which led to me going out with a couple of them...a thing that I guarantee never would've happened if they'd waited for me to initiate). Honestly, my ideal situation would be if people I knew a little and had spent some time around and was interested in eventually displayed an interest themselves. But this pretty much never, ever happens. I am the perennial "just a friend", for better and for worse.

what this boils down to is that people who are comfortable meeting people in social situations don't see the utility of online dating for themselves because they are comfortable meeting people in social situations. duh.

Yeah this p much. We'd all HAVE dates if it wasnt so hard :/ Or something like that. I dont know.

the classical musician dude i was messaging with totally blew it by saying something creepy and sexual. ugh. dismissed.

I def. see the utility of online dating, it's just that i can't help thinking how awful the women i've had my best-so-far relationships with would have looked on a dating-site profile. Had I known one in particular only from her background and interests, I would have clicked on the "next" button before I could bat my eyelashes, and missed out on a great 3 years. Conversely, some people I met online were disappointing when we met in real life. I'm also spooked at the notion of ppl checking me out online before meeting me IRL - i'm really tiring of people who don't want anything to do with me until they've stalked me online.

You've brought that up earlier, and it is bugging me. I dont do this. Do people do this? I mean googling potential dates? The hell?

If I meet someone "on line" - and OKC is the ONLY "dating site" i have ever used, all my "online" partnering has been meeting people I knew/came across via newsgroups, IRC chat, Livejournal, and even last.fm. I never felt the need to dig for dirt on them. I *did* appreciate the ability to connect with them cerebrally without my usual crippling shyness.

yes people do this unfortunately, and all too frequently. I've had people refuse to go out with me (or hire me as the case may be) because they googled me and someone else with the same name is an online jerk.

Recent survey shows 43% in the US googled their dates

I def. see the utility of online dating, it's just that i can't help thinking how awful the women i've had my best-so-far relationships with would have looked on a dating-site profile. Had I known one in particular only from her background and interests, I would have clicked on the "next" button before I could bat my eyelashes,and missed out on a great 3 years.

Although I generally sympathize with what you're saying here, I think the thing I'm reacting to most strongly about your perspective is the assumption that people don't take online profiles with a massive grain of salt. I'm sure anyone who's engaged with online dating sites has learned that this is a much smarter move than taking a stranger's self-description at complete face value. The thing is, though, it's just as much a risk as dating IRL, to the extent that you never really know what anyone's about (it's just a continuum of approximate knowledge that, hopefully, increases in accuracy over time).

The thing is, though, when I'm in dating mode, I date fairly indiscriminately: online dates I initiate, online dates initiated by others (whether we had a lot in common or not, I generally went with it so long as they didn't seem actively creepy), irl dates initiated by others, the very occasional irl date initiated by me (tbis used to happen a whole, whole lot more when I lived somewhere that I knew a lot of people). I don't get real picky until the multiple dates/possibly exclusive dating stuff kicks in, so I don't feel at all like I'm limiting my options or failing to take chances (aside from that whole "there's no way I'm bothering that girl who's immersed in her interesting book" thing).