Rolling Metal Thread 2012

The whole idea of "selling out" exists only in the minds of insecure and overzealous fans (many of whom are also writers, unfortunately, which is how this absurd idea maintains currency) who don't want people they don't personally know (or, at the very least, people who seem cool, thus making the insecure and overzealous fan feel cool by association) listening to their favorite bands.

this is a falsehood. it is true that most bands would like to be more heard. testimony, I got an offer for a hotel ad a couple years ago, they were just using an instrumental part of a really good aerosmith song. the song's important to some people, doesn't really have anything to do with getting a good night's sleep at a hotel. in fact, what goes on in a hotel in this song would probably get you thrown out of the hotel. so I said "no," because it wouldn't have been right for the song, aesthetically, to be placed there, even though it would have expanded my audience and gotten me paid. taking the money & coming up w/some bullshit rationalization about it would have pretty much been dictionary-definition "selling out."

so the point is, it's actually possible to hope that people who'd enjoy what you do will hear it, and work hard to make that happen, without whoring yourself for money, which is what tethering your music to an unrelated product is, imo. the scion stuff is more interesting than that, because it really does seem to be helmed by dudes who give a shit about metal & are putting on good shows, which is important to the scene is ways that scene purity isn't. to then say "there's no underground/there's no scene" is patently absurd, though

the song's important to some people

question: if the song was a really obscure aerosmith song that nobody showed a particular fondness towards, would you have felt differently about letting them use it? like did the consideration lie in aerosmith's sense of integrity about how the music is used, or in trying to protect aerosmith fans who may have felt betrayed to hear it in that context?

smithy otm

if the song was a really obscure aerosmith song that nobody showed a particular fondness towards, would you have felt differently about letting them use it?

idk I generally err on the side of "if you have any doubt, say no" - context is important, content is important, it's not the audience's fondness as much as the particular strain of fondness (if it's a song people like 'cause it's got a good beat & a nice hook that's different from "this song meant a lot to my family in a difficult time"), you just have to follow your gut on these things & if your gut tells you "this feels like I'd be selling something I can't get back for money" then you are in fact selling out imo & that's to be avoided generally

but don't get me wrong if somebody's got a million bucks for "Bright Light Fright" I'm all fucking ears, there's bills to pay around here

I actually got to your specific objection four sentences later, aero.

it's true you did but that first sentence is pretty sweeping & rong imo

Well, I would submit that the actual type of selling out you describe, and which I also agree is a Bad Thing, is also pretty vanishingly rare - I mean, how many examples can we actually cite? The Beatles song "Revolution" in a Nike ad? The Clash song (was it "London Calling"?) in a UK jeans ad? And maybe this is where we differ, possibly because I am not myself a songwriter, but I don't really think of licensing a song for a commercial (or a movie trailer, or whatever else) as being in any way out of bounds. It's never bothered me to hear a song I recognized in a commercial. It's never caused me to think more favorably of the product in question, either.

Like, in order to be truly egregiously whorin' it up, for me, the artist would have to change the song to make it more friendly to the product in question. Like when Devo made "Whip It" about Swiffers. Or Dee Snider singing about carpet cleaning services (a thing which actually happened on my TV this very morning). Those kinds of things are gross and unsettling. But licensing an existing song, in its existing form, to advertise a product to which you have no personal objection (i.e. not a political campaign or beer or whatever trips your personal trigger)? I say take the money. Buy yourself somethin' nice.

yeah I just can't. have licensed (for low $, I should say, not enough to pay a month's rent) to a music-selling service where the ad was specifically about music & how people enjoy it, that seemed different - it was a sweet little thing that I liked, it fit. if record stores still did TV ads I'd sell the hell outta my stuff to Licorice Pizza for an ad. but who'll ever hear "Pink Moon" again and not think at some point of the VW ad? that's a disservice to a song that deserves better, I'm a romantic, the song is more important than me getting something nice, or that's true if the song's any good, anyway. if aerosmith sucked live & had trouble pulling a crowd I'd probably feel different but as it stands we kick ass and put in work and enjoy our work so I'm in a position of privilege here

How about if you were asked to have a song on an ad for your fave beer? Its a beer you drink all the time, so you wouldn't be advertising something you dont actually use. Would you license a song then?

Totally fair, and I'm not gonna even try to convince you you're wrong. I, on the other hand, would take the Fay Weldon deal in a fucking heartbeat.

this is probably as good a place as any to admit that while i am glad that laurie anderson is making $$$ every time o superman comes on my television while some dude uses a digital camera to shoot a skydiving fashion shoot a little part of me dies inside

because Some Dude took the photo?

(I specify metal because there's always the counterexample of the noise scene, which is willfully obscurantist because it's basically a cranky, reactionary, fuck-you-Dad gesture against the larger society. Which is fine. Pat them on the head and leave them alone.)

this is undoubtedly true for some noise folks but I think you're oversimplifying a bit too much here to make a larger point. which I suspect you realize - aren't fushitsusha one of your favorite bands? the aesthetic they're working is not cranky or reactionary in the least imo. more spiritual and tv spots really wold take something away from that. (tho a keiji haino doritos commercial would be pretty hilarious.)

When I say noise I mean Wolf Eyes, Prurient etc. I don't actually think Haino considers himself a "noise" artist, and I've never understood why he gets called that. To me he's a psychedelic guitar hero on a par with Randy Holden and even Hendrix. And his non-guitar stuff isn't "noise" either - it's extremely spiritual, as you say. I make fun of metal bands for using the word "ritual" to describe their gigs, but I've seen Haino performances for which that term would apply 100%.

So, I've actually done work for Scion AV, and spoken to the artists in question. From what I gather, a lot of them actually prefer Scion to record labels – they fly them around, book the shows, pay to put them in nice hotels, and in the case of the EP series, they foot the studio time and distribution and don't really expect anything in return other than getting to slap their logo on it. Nobody I've spoken to actually seems to know how this is supposed to equal profit, but from what I understand the executive behind the AV stuff is actually a genuine metal fan, and they get legit people to curate their events. I guess it's just a way to get the name out there (and, compared to the cost of putting together commercials and buying airtime, probably fairly cost-effective). And hell, I guess it works to an extent – when I was looking for a new car, I actually did look at Scions before I realized I couldn't actually fit into any of them. Yeah, it's corporate sponsorship. But weirdly, they've actually been doing a good enough job that at this point I would venture to say that they have earned some metal cred.

On the other hand, I guess I'm a sellout for working for them, so BOW BEFORE YOUR CORPORATE OVERLORDS.

yeah when you put it like that it seems pretty fuckin awesome for the bands

one of our journos needs to get an interview with the metal-loving scion exec

hah, would read.

would be cool if the scion detroit techno stuff is also happening because of this one exec.

Hey Neil S, I reposted your IBYM mix on The Quietus, I hope you don't mind. It's a while since I've listened to three Slayer albums before breakfast.

Listened to the new Vitus coming into work this morning. I gotta confess, they're usually a band I admire more than actually listen to for pleasure, a few killer songs aside ("Born Too Late" etc.), but this record is really, really solid. I also like the fact that it's relatively short - under 40 minutes. Get in, hit hard, get out.

I wrote this on the Vitus thread the other day:

Finally getting to hear the new record in preparation for seeing them Friday. First off, it sounds amazing. Clarity and heft, and though Wino is way up front as always it doesn't take away the power of the band behind as it does on some of the 80s records. However, there isn't a lot of meat on the bones. A short record, and not incredibly memorable despite being recorded so well. Maybe it'll grow a bit more over time, but I'm a few listens in and waiting for the earworm. I do expect the songs will work well live mixed in with the classic material.

Lazarus pit time again, female fronted metal but NOT girly metal: http://www.decibelmagazine.com/featured/the-lazarus-pit-fear-of-gods-within-the-veil/

Does that just mean female cookie monster vox?

Why do I still buy physical media? Because I bet your iTunes download of Lillie:F-65 didn't come with a fuckin' Saint Vitus beer coozy. That's why.

It also comes with a beer coaster – the CD! BOOM. (I love physical media too, just couldn't resist the joke)

xp If you read the article, Mordy, it will tell you what you want to know. Plus there's a convenient video embedded so you can actually listen to one of their songs!

Hey, I teed it up, someone had to send it home.

If there is a terrible, obvious joke to be made, I will be the one to make it.

I got Saint Vitus branded rolling papers with my vinyl.

hah, like that cheech and chong lp

Ha. But I'm much more likely to use a beer coozy before I'd be likely to use the rolling papers.

What percentage of people who got the vinyl do you think will actually use the St. Vitus rolling papers?

I am the only one who wont

87.4%

Unless they keep it to sell on ebay

I mean, obviously people who get the vinyl are into what you would put on those rolling papers, but it seems weird to me to have a branded consumable like that as a bonus. Like, if you use them you are destroying the bonus, but if you don't, you're kind of wasting them. Not really the sort of thing you can easily put on display, either.

I may be overthinking this.

i imagine just qbout everyone will keep em in M/NM condition

If you don't plan to use your rolling papers, feel free to send them to me.

Good points, ALL!!

I've had some friends do the Scion shows and are in talks with the EP thing. They, in no way, feel they are being a corporate puppet, or that they are selling out, or that thier fans are getting square cars shoved down there throats.. The shows were the best ones they've ever done, no sign od Scion anywhere at the shows, and interviews that were being done, they were encouraged to not even mention Scion! The EP (if they do it) will not give up rights or publishing, they pay for the session, as well as pay the band for the session, and the shit goes out for free?

But these guys that I've had discussions with are so pissed, cuz they feel its ruining their scene.. I really don't get it. I don't think there as been a Scion basement show in West Oakland, so I really don't know how it affects them.. They argued that they want to keep there underground scene exclusive, and support DIY to the fullest, and not take anything that was offered with corp backing regardless.. I said Bullshit. they would take it if it was offered, but it won't be offered cuz their bands are not that good... No response was uttered.. lol!

xp

There's a female fronted Japanese anime power metal band who have an album promo for journalists that comes with a Hamster Wheel with band logos and will play the album if the hamster starts running on it. Who on earth would want one of those?

J3ff?

http://www.hamtarosmetallico.com/revenge-of-the-rodent-lp-Promo.html

This is a bizarre joke, dude.

Hehehehehehehehe!!

if I had the st vitus rolling papers I would roll up some killer Js & then send them to Mordy because I never have the time to get lifted. I am a failed stoner, sad lol

i would smoke them while listening to some killer aerosmith jams!