Words and Music by Saint Etienne

Some minor quibbles with “Over The Border”:

“Peter Gabriel. Peter Gabriel from Genesis.” To avoid confusion with all those other Peter Gabriels.

About listening to the charts: “Tuesday afternoon, 12:45, Saturday evening, 5:00.” Um, SATURDAY? Unless they’re alluding to the football results.

Actually, they probably are, there.

Love that Beat Connection dropped the 'would you go to sleep with a fella' sample at the end of their remix on disc 2. Overall I really enjoyed the album but definitely prefer disc 2. Absolutely agree with the 'too much Sarah' criticism. I thought it was the way her voice was mixed but maybe it's just too much of her singing everywhere.

I think St. Etienne lost it with Good Humor. Tiger Bay is the last album of theirs I really loved yet I buy them all and then re-buy them in deluxe editions and box sets. Part of what I love about them is their references. They name some music I love and they name some music i've never heard of but can't wait to hear. This started way back with the booklet to Foxbase Alpha and continues to this day. I'd love to go record shopping with Bob and Pete.

But there is a world of difference between using your influences to inform your music, whilst somehow exposing them to any listeners who are clued-in enough to notice, compared with just cropping up in the middle of a quite boring techno-lounge track and saying "I always really liked Marc Bolan". We already know that they like Marc Bolan. They covered one of his songs about 15 years ago, around the same time as recording an icy T-Rex pastiche called "Star". And Bob as blogged about Marc Bolan, which is another thing: the song lacks verisimiltude as it's presented as Sarah's story, yet anyone who knows anything about them will have no doubt that this is Bob and/or Pete's experiences. And I think the "Saturday evening" thing is a mistake - there's nothing in this song except wistful musical memories.

"Peter Gabriel from Genesis" is to distinguish from Peter Gabriel the guy that did Sledgehammer. ie. it's 1974, not 1984.

So they are not allowed to have Mark Bolan as an influence and at the same time explicitly state it in a song?

if they lost it w/ good humor, id implore every other band to lose it in a similar fashion

They already acknowledged Bolan as an influence by recording "Is It True?" and "Star". They didn't have to explicitly state it. Just like they didn't write a song that goes "Oooooo I really like the Beach Boys la la la la la/and you should check out the TV Personalities". That info is hardwired into their oeuvre but they are not what the songs are about.

'good humor' is the shit imo

that was my entry point to st et. maybe if i'd followed them from the debut i'd be disappointed by it but idts

Good Humour is my least favourite St. Etienne album. The songs are fine but I can't stand the production. Loved those Trousers Enthusiast mixes of "Sylvie" and "Loose That Girl" tho. Also "Lover Plays the Bass"

To me, their masterpiece is still "So Tough".

So Tough is the masterpiece.

I've really tried to love other SE albums as much as So Tough but none comes remotely close. As a singles band they are top notch though – certainly better than their Brit peers of the nineties.

The more I listen to this album the more it just sounds like generic American pop music or Kylie Minogue or something. It sounds totally unremarkable (though tbf I've heard v little Kylie and she might not be unremarkable and sorry if I called her that)

I'm a little afraid to listen to it. It's been in the house two days and, of course, I will listen to it. Some of the reviews though...

Never heard Finnisterre, I realised a few days ago - so I got that also. Gonna spin them both out tomorrow and through the Bank Holiday Weekend together a fair bit I think. See how they work together. (I adore everything else - almost esp. the post "hits" stuff: Good Humor / Sounds / Tales records. So we'll see.

Stevie I'm actually shocked you're not a huge Kylie fan!

I really love "Come Into My World" but I"ve never really taken the initiative to listen to her other stuff, though a few weeks ago I was going through my record collection and found this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511fYEIPCgL._SS500_.jpg

kylie has many amazing singles but whenever people try to make the case for *her* being interesting i get confused - the minute the songcraft dips below gold standard she sinks and can't salvage it through force of personality

^^ ^^
^^ ^^
Lucky boy! That means "Turn It into Love" is within your reach. Don't miss out!

Some of the reviews though...

I did notice that it only got 1 out of 5 on FACT

Surprised how many reviewers are saying it's their best since Tiger Bay. I think Turnpike House is mostly incredible but because it didn't sell it seems to have been lumped in with all the others to fit this return-to-form narrative. Or maybe people really don't like Turnpike House as much as I do.

The new album is my least favourite Saint Etienne LP. I like the thematic ideas but don't think it's executed well ... much of it does sound like bad Kylie.

xp - that struck me as weird too - turnpike house is great!

finally listened to the remix disc this morning, lots to like there. im warming up to some of these tunes generally, i think

Apart from sounding more current, the remix disc really does sound more like a Saint Etienne album of old: a mix of fun techno jams, three or four complete songs (Sarah's voice is generally less obnoxious on the remixes as it's been treated in various ways) and some bangers. If you dropped the second version of DJ which is a bit superfluous and threw in some a couple of acousticy interludes and it could be up there with Continental.

Don't let those "some reviews" put you off, kraudive. Most of them are favourable (and that FACT one is completely OFFTM).

I really like the new album a lot but there is no way it's as good as Turnpike which is probably my third favourite album after the first two. Words & Music doesn't have the variety or flow like Turnpike does but there is plenty to love on here.

I disagree. The FACT review actually misses some of the problems with the album but it's the only one I've read that makes sense. eg. This: "it’s painfully reminiscent of being cornered by your best mate’s hippy-ish mum the morning after a heavy night out, listening to her discuss her youth as she cheerfully scrubs your vomit from her sofa and waves away your apologies.". Very OTM.

xpost BTW.

I don't know if "lol, they're old" is ever a valid musical critique

The review does actually excuse that by stating that they bring it on themselves, which makes sense to me.

Also, they are not really that old. Same age as George Harrison was when he released "When We Was Fab".

’25 Years’ is Goldfrapp with all traces of sex, lust and luridness replaced with the preoccupations of a couple from Location, Location, Location.

I'm quite possibly OK with that.

somehow I'm not sure "lol old woman, you asked for this" is any better

Listening to this now for the first time btw; I don't really know Saint Etienne aside from "Only Love Can Break Your Heart"

I mean, the only thing I took away from that review is that the reviewer is a dick

regardless of that review's ~accuracy~/validity/etc, the pull quote from it on the FACT homepage - "Sounds like it was written by a quiz machine in a Wetherspoons" - is one of the funniest disses I have read in a while.

Indeed. Plus, I like music reviewers who are dicks. It's traditional.

i was a lil surprised no one took a crack @ remixing '25 years'. if u make it sound like less of a showtune i could be into it. as is, it's def my least fav track

awful synthesizers worthy of presets

This is an annoying meme. I'm sure there are plenty of synth presets that sound cool and I'd guess that Saint Etienne doesn't just use presets anyway.

The first paragraph is fine. The second paragraph's detour into preset-land is "DANGER WILL ROBINSON" territory well-mined by people who can't make a cogent argument for why they dislike something without leaning heavily on cliche and by the time it gets to "Sarah Cracknell is your mum", I have no reason to take anything this guy says seriously. (The later evocation of pilates as the specter of all things horrible and awful is just confirmation.)

My main beef with the FACT review is that it completely dismisses the music as

"...a dirge of acoustic guitars, awful synthesizers worthy of presets and a rhythm section straight from a Tune A Day drum tutorial."

4 songs into this

I am finding this to be very polite, mannered music that is not really my thing. It appears to be well made and I kind of dig "Heading For The Fair" but there's nothing that's making a lasting impression.

Also, yes St. Etienne have grown up and they are writing about their love of music past and present. What is wrong with that?

"Tonight" is good, though

it's actually kind of hilarious that dude raises pilates as something to get angry about re: album subject matter since this song is kind of evocative of Madonna to me, particularly in some of the vocal phrasing (and of course Madonna caught a ton of shit for rapping about pilates on "American Life")

Also, they are not really that old. Same age as George Harrison was when he released "When We Was Fab".

um an interesting analogy.

A tambourine usually isn't an EVENT but when it came into the proceedings at around 1:12 on "Answer Song", I stopped, rewound a little bit, and listened to it again

DJP if you like "Tonight" you will also probably like "DJ".

"very polite, mannered music that is not really my thing" and "nothing that's making a lasting impression" = my problem with most of SE albums since 1994.

I still adore "Tonight."

but I'm a sucker for that big beat and ooh-ooh-ooh-oohs