Words and Music by Saint Etienne

A lot of it seems leaden and heavy-handed, to me.

yeah, sigh. picks up near the end, dj is nearly great. over the border as a better finnisterre is offtm tho

Map for sale separately here:
http://www.wearedorothy.com/art/song-map-unlimited-edition/

Actually that might be a different one - same idea though

There is something profoundly weird about hearing a band with actual profile singing a song about your friends that goes to the extent of actually naming them.

The remix of DJ on the bonus disc is much better than the regular version. It sounds like real club music for starters. Or it somehow recreates the effect of a loud club in a way that is quite fun. The regular version is weirdly flat and quite boring to me. It's trying to be pop but it's like they haven't listened to what's in the charts these days. In the remix Sarah's voice is relegated to being more of a sound effect or just part of the mix, rather than leading the track. It's a good, druggy number.

I've only listened once straight through but overall I dislike the vibe of this album. It's partly because lots of it seems like an eternal re-write of Mario's Cafe or Mr Donut except the playfulness of those tracks has been stripped (or sounds forced) and everything is happening in the wistful past tense. Over The Border is embarrasing. Then there is so little of the diversity that made their earlier albums so interesting. Whither the likes of Railway Jam, Cool Kids of Death, Urban Clearway, etc? It's just song, song, song, song. Too much Cracknell.

Round about Good Humor they started segregating their more interesting material onto eps, remixes or special release albums, using the "real" albums for their most formal and carefully curated songwriting. Combined with the fact that they are apparently running out of things to say, their "real" albums have now become quite boring as a result.

The second disc is really quite enjoyable though. Pretty much no duds.

There is something profoundly weird about hearing a band with actual profile singing a song about your friends that goes to the extent of actually naming them.

i can't work out whether that's my favourite song on the album because of that or because it's the best song

everything OTM - this is leaving me super cold and I quit listening after four or five tracks. A bummer.

This album reminds me of Madonna

But not of MDNA I hope (haven't listened yet)

everything sorta OTM but still wrong. "DJ" is pop. It just doesn't sound like current chart-friendly pop. And why should it?

Re "Over The Border," I agree that the whole wistful nostalgia is by now a St Etienne cliche and starting to get a bit tedious. But in a song so good and beautifully crafted, I think they can be forgiven for it.

To me WAM is Saint Etienne leaving behind their "quirky" side a bit. I miss that side too, but I've always felt that sometimes it gets on the way. Sometimes. They are so, so great at straightforward pop that I don't see any problem with them doing an that an album of just that.

Finisterre aside, I haven't immediately taken to a Saint Etienne album on the first few listens since So Tough, so I'm not going to write this off yet. In fact, walking to work yesterday I had Last Days of Disco going round in my head quite a bit, so it is starting to grow on me I think.

I haven't really given the main album a fair shake yet but I can't see me warming to it too much because of Sarah being smeared over everything so much. And the overall sepia-tinge in the album to be claustrophobic. Even a song called "Tonight" seems to be somehow set in the distant past. And they are trying to do a concept album but they forgot one of the rules of concept albums, which is that when you have a pompous spoken word bit like in Over The Border, the LAST thing you do is get the lead singer to read it. Obviously you get in a well-known actor or comedian such as Ewen MacGregor or David Mitchell to read it. The chorus bit is fine as it is though the wistfulness is terrific.

The second disc is really kicking my ass though. Especially the first three tracks which make me think how cool it would've been if they had the balls to make this the album proper.

"real dance music"?

Some minor quibbles with “Over The Border”:

“Peter Gabriel. Peter Gabriel from Genesis.” To avoid confusion with all those other Peter Gabriels.

About listening to the charts: “Tuesday afternoon, 12:45, Saturday evening, 5:00.” Um, SATURDAY? Unless they’re alluding to the football results.

Actually, they probably are, there.

Love that Beat Connection dropped the 'would you go to sleep with a fella' sample at the end of their remix on disc 2. Overall I really enjoyed the album but definitely prefer disc 2. Absolutely agree with the 'too much Sarah' criticism. I thought it was the way her voice was mixed but maybe it's just too much of her singing everywhere.

I think St. Etienne lost it with Good Humor. Tiger Bay is the last album of theirs I really loved yet I buy them all and then re-buy them in deluxe editions and box sets. Part of what I love about them is their references. They name some music I love and they name some music i've never heard of but can't wait to hear. This started way back with the booklet to Foxbase Alpha and continues to this day. I'd love to go record shopping with Bob and Pete.

But there is a world of difference between using your influences to inform your music, whilst somehow exposing them to any listeners who are clued-in enough to notice, compared with just cropping up in the middle of a quite boring techno-lounge track and saying "I always really liked Marc Bolan". We already know that they like Marc Bolan. They covered one of his songs about 15 years ago, around the same time as recording an icy T-Rex pastiche called "Star". And Bob as blogged about Marc Bolan, which is another thing: the song lacks verisimiltude as it's presented as Sarah's story, yet anyone who knows anything about them will have no doubt that this is Bob and/or Pete's experiences. And I think the "Saturday evening" thing is a mistake - there's nothing in this song except wistful musical memories.

"Peter Gabriel from Genesis" is to distinguish from Peter Gabriel the guy that did Sledgehammer. ie. it's 1974, not 1984.

So they are not allowed to have Mark Bolan as an influence and at the same time explicitly state it in a song?

if they lost it w/ good humor, id implore every other band to lose it in a similar fashion

They already acknowledged Bolan as an influence by recording "Is It True?" and "Star". They didn't have to explicitly state it. Just like they didn't write a song that goes "Oooooo I really like the Beach Boys la la la la la/and you should check out the TV Personalities". That info is hardwired into their oeuvre but they are not what the songs are about.

'good humor' is the shit imo

that was my entry point to st et. maybe if i'd followed them from the debut i'd be disappointed by it but idts

Good Humour is my least favourite St. Etienne album. The songs are fine but I can't stand the production. Loved those Trousers Enthusiast mixes of "Sylvie" and "Loose That Girl" tho. Also "Lover Plays the Bass"

To me, their masterpiece is still "So Tough".

So Tough is the masterpiece.

I've really tried to love other SE albums as much as So Tough but none comes remotely close. As a singles band they are top notch though – certainly better than their Brit peers of the nineties.

The more I listen to this album the more it just sounds like generic American pop music or Kylie Minogue or something. It sounds totally unremarkable (though tbf I've heard v little Kylie and she might not be unremarkable and sorry if I called her that)

I'm a little afraid to listen to it. It's been in the house two days and, of course, I will listen to it. Some of the reviews though...

Never heard Finnisterre, I realised a few days ago - so I got that also. Gonna spin them both out tomorrow and through the Bank Holiday Weekend together a fair bit I think. See how they work together. (I adore everything else - almost esp. the post "hits" stuff: Good Humor / Sounds / Tales records. So we'll see.

Stevie I'm actually shocked you're not a huge Kylie fan!

I really love "Come Into My World" but I"ve never really taken the initiative to listen to her other stuff, though a few weeks ago I was going through my record collection and found this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511fYEIPCgL._SS500_.jpg

kylie has many amazing singles but whenever people try to make the case for *her* being interesting i get confused - the minute the songcraft dips below gold standard she sinks and can't salvage it through force of personality

^^ ^^
^^ ^^
Lucky boy! That means "Turn It into Love" is within your reach. Don't miss out!

Some of the reviews though...

I did notice that it only got 1 out of 5 on FACT

Surprised how many reviewers are saying it's their best since Tiger Bay. I think Turnpike House is mostly incredible but because it didn't sell it seems to have been lumped in with all the others to fit this return-to-form narrative. Or maybe people really don't like Turnpike House as much as I do.

The new album is my least favourite Saint Etienne LP. I like the thematic ideas but don't think it's executed well ... much of it does sound like bad Kylie.

xp - that struck me as weird too - turnpike house is great!

finally listened to the remix disc this morning, lots to like there. im warming up to some of these tunes generally, i think

Apart from sounding more current, the remix disc really does sound more like a Saint Etienne album of old: a mix of fun techno jams, three or four complete songs (Sarah's voice is generally less obnoxious on the remixes as it's been treated in various ways) and some bangers. If you dropped the second version of DJ which is a bit superfluous and threw in some a couple of acousticy interludes and it could be up there with Continental.

Don't let those "some reviews" put you off, kraudive. Most of them are favourable (and that FACT one is completely OFFTM).

I really like the new album a lot but there is no way it's as good as Turnpike which is probably my third favourite album after the first two. Words & Music doesn't have the variety or flow like Turnpike does but there is plenty to love on here.

I disagree. The FACT review actually misses some of the problems with the album but it's the only one I've read that makes sense. eg. This: "it’s painfully reminiscent of being cornered by your best mate’s hippy-ish mum the morning after a heavy night out, listening to her discuss her youth as she cheerfully scrubs your vomit from her sofa and waves away your apologies.". Very OTM.

xpost BTW.

I don't know if "lol, they're old" is ever a valid musical critique

The review does actually excuse that by stating that they bring it on themselves, which makes sense to me.

Also, they are not really that old. Same age as George Harrison was when he released "When We Was Fab".

’25 Years’ is Goldfrapp with all traces of sex, lust and luridness replaced with the preoccupations of a couple from Location, Location, Location.

I'm quite possibly OK with that.

somehow I'm not sure "lol old woman, you asked for this" is any better

Listening to this now for the first time btw; I don't really know Saint Etienne aside from "Only Love Can Break Your Heart"

I mean, the only thing I took away from that review is that the reviewer is a dick

the more I think about it ,the more I feel W&M might actually be my favorite Saint Etienne album.

i was otm in this thread

often "DJ" is my favorite track ever recorded by anybody