Techno/House Bobbins of the past

omg, did you know that 'time reveals' got a reissue last month? no shit!

can anyone explain the appeal of this outside of rarity? i mean, it's ok, nothing more...

So I'm listening to Bytes by Black Dog Productions, and the pads sound distorted on a lot of the tracks. Also, during "The Clan (Mongol Hordes)" theres a whispy, very high pitched sound throughout.

What the hell is up with this? Is my CD fucked up (it's not my computer or speakers), is this on others copies/the re-released version?

Lately I can't get enough of the album Seven by Dark Comedy (Kenny Larkin). I haven't heard anything else by DC but I understand he want much jazzier after this release.

It's one of those albums whose sounds, movements and concepts echo through a lot of contemporary techno. Whether they know they're tracing some of the same lines is really is mostly unimportant.

"Paranoid (Prelude To Paranoia)," "In a Room," "Solace," "Darkness," and "Without a Sound" would all sit comfortably in techno sets today.

As an aside, I watched one of the comedy videos Larkin has on his Myspace. I guess he's been out in Hollywood for a while now, possibly acting and certainly doing stand up comedy. I'll say this: I wish his comedy was as good as his music.

Also, have been noticing a swell in recognition for Liaison Dangereuses, who were truly excellent.

So I'm listening to Bytes by Black Dog Productions, and the pads sound distorted on a lot of the tracks. Also, during "The Clan (Mongol Hordes)" theres a whispy, very high pitched sound throughout.

What the hell is up with this? Is my CD fucked up (it's not my computer or speakers), is this on others copies/the re-released version?

-- mehlt

no, they all sound like that. IIRC a lot of it was done on fucked-up hand-me-down equipment, dubbed to cassette tape, mastered from vinyl and on top of that mastered to be murky on purpose.

can anyone explain the appeal of this outside of rarity? i mean, it's ok, nothing more...

-- resolved, Saturday, 21 June 2008 13:52 (7 hours ago) Link

maybe try it louder? the club mix is just really cool spacey techno with a house vocal and the original mix is piano house that ups the energy and gives the same vocal a very different feel. obviously it's not the best record ever, or it would have been repressed earlier, but it's very good.

it's like a more sublime housefactors with vocals. the best of all larry heard worlds.

XXpost. Ahh that sucks, don't know why I didn't notice it 'till now. Reminds me of reading that original tapes for Selected Ambient Works were mangled by a cat.

And is it me or does ILM not talk about KC Flightt enough?

anyone care to talk about 16B? i dug out my copy of 'sounds from another room' the other day and at least half of it still sounds really fresh. on the cover there is label proclaiming him to be britain's answer to MAW. i think this album is a bit to techy to justify that claim but there's some really emotive house music on here. it's a shame he had to turn to the dark side.

http://www.discogs.com/release/11954

You mean go prog? Wasn't he always quite prog though? He didn't switch as much as Deep Dish - in fact 16B's stuff is a lot like their two Yoshitoshi mixes. I quite like that middleground between deep house and prog, or at least the stuff from the end of the 90s anyway. Also: Hooj Choons!

16B's remix of Gus Gus's "Believe" is double classic to the max.

yes, that remix of gus gus is very nice. i have it on an old northern exposure mix i think. i guess i've got my timelines confused. i always assumed that he started off (deep) house and went out and out prog from about 2000.

listening to 'sounds from another room' i never would have guessed that he had a penchant for progressive house (except for 'water ride' perhaps). the fact that it was released on Eye Q should have been a give away though... i wish he'd pursued that sound a little more because he had a real knack for producing soulful house music with a bit of bite.

no, i think sam500's right here. he was firmly in the glasgow underground camp when i first heard about him - although i guess you could argue there was always a strong prog element to glasgow underground?

Hmm I guess everything i know of by him was from between 1997 and 2002 (love "Behind The Face" from that year) - so perhaps his full career reveals more of a transition than he made in that period alone.

Does anyone here have an opinion on the Micronauts? I've been listening to this album a fair bit recently, it's good IMO.

Remember that Micronauts as being good.

I think I have an electro comp mixed by them, or am I imagining things?

This: http://www.discogs.com/release/58745

yeah that mix is good. They did a Mo' Wax Jive Bunny style mega-mix which I remember as being fun too...

xpost to mehlt: funny you should mention cuz i just picked up kc flightt "planet e" 12" friday at a flea market. good stuff.

This is worth looking into:

http://www.discogs.com/release/37903

try the vocal version of pop, dip, and spin: http://www.discogs.com/release/40969

but you know, it probably works better without the vocal because then you can focus on the bassline. which is perfect.

from RA:

Jeff Mills and “Mad” Mike Banks are re-releasing their classic 1992 album X-102 Discovers the Rings of Saturn with four extra tracks.

The original album is hailed for its spacey concept and softer approach to Detroit techno, but it has been out of print since the nineties. Now comes a refitted version with four extra tracks, and a vinyl EP of selections from the album.

Jeff Mills and Mike Banks will be performing Discovers the Rings of Saturn in its entirely at this year’s Sonar Festival. No word yet on additional dates.

is this any good? will no doubt have the detroitophiles salivating at the mouth...

hmmm ... compared to other stuff of the time it's fairly dated, i'd say

i mean, it shows its age worse than some other stuff they did

Vahid otm.

as usual

yes to quote the great blunt in the ron trent thread "Dance Floor Boogie Delites" on Prescription, despite the low pressing, is a deep house tearjerker.

listening to gene farris on soma tonight ... "origins" is so deeeeeeeeeep ...

what was better, gene on soma or roy on peacefrog?

did i already do a "t/s: soma vs peacefrog" thread?

Like Peacefrog more than Soma easily (but I am more familiar with Peacefrog giving it an advantage)

but at same time Gene's This is my Religion is great!

the best farris is on soma yeah, esp. "get on the floor" on the mainline disco ep -but, roy davis easy win.

Carl Cox Vs. Kevin Saunderson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWAgKaZDwE8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TB_VDYPtjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja9A8TZhw3o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEIA36Y0pzk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAQ-OuWliZ4

there are a few others, all worth checking out.

wow. articulate!

i realize this isn't "of the past" but can anybody speak about his "contact special" and "one man spaceship" album?

I remember getting slammed for telling people that you wouldn't get it unless you had been to Detroit. I was specifically referring to being a room with him discussing techno. There would be a couple less blog posts on mnmlssgs if those guys did their homework. It all kind of clicks when you hear him discuss it.

One Man Spaceship has it's moments. It's a Jeff Mill's album that sounds like Jeff Mills doing a minimal techno album. It is what it is.

I shouldn't dog it too much. I think the real problem is that I want to hear him mix purpose maker loops with the best parts of Every Dog Has It's Day. I can't really blame him for making a bleepy 909 album but I would love to hear some of the old samba magic from the older axis records.

He is in a tough spot. How do you keep working and progressing after 15 years worth of genre defining records?

Mike i thought you had disowned your "you have to have gone to Detroit" rants:

"goddamn, what the hell was I thinking on March 27th 2003???"

I don't think that was much of a rant.

I think that mnmlssgg blog was a bit absurd. All of the influences existed prior to techno, but they didn't become "techno" until a whole lot of different things got thrown into a blender that was Detroit DJ culture. Techno as it is recognized as a genre came from the people in that scene cooked up.

The point I was trying to make, and perhaps I didn't make as clearly as I should have, I don't think those guy would deny Detroit's place in techno if they actually had to spend anytime in Submerge, or have a dinner discussing it's history with someone like Mills or even go record shopping with some old school heads for an afternoon.

If you wanted to learn about dub reggae you should go to Jamaica in the 70's or 80's. I don't think it is impossible for you to enjoy or be knowledgeable about the music with out visiting or living there, but you would view things in a different light if you had access to the actual location or at least direct access to the people involved. It was a local culture and witnessing it through marketing or media objects does not give a complete picture.

One of Detroit's problems is that it doesn't have the same kind of centralized documentation or commercial infrastructure to really spell out what was accomplished and why it is important. The majors don't own most of the masters and they have no reason to market it. I have been listening to Mill's since 1995 and last night was one of the first times I have seen proper interview footage of him discussing this music as a big picture. Detroit is a myth and it is a shame in some respects because there are a lot of accomplishments that don't get acknowledged today.

Bottom line is Jeff Mills spinning his own electronic rhythm track versions of popular street songs like a hip hop battle DJ with the sensibility of a jazz drummer is techno. It wasn't a tabla rasa, 12" culture started around 1975 and they slotted right into something that was already happening. The important thing is that they put their particular twist on the same records that everybody else had. The Chicago guys did their thing, the NYC guys did their thing, Miami had it's scene...

The other thing about Detroit is how much brilliant music came out of a relatively small city in the US. You could fill a book talking about the first rate dance talent that came out in the 80's and 90's.

Juan, Kevin, Derrick, Mike Banks, Ade Mainor, Marc Kitchen, Chez Damier, Carl Craig, Stacy Pullen, Rolando, Octave One, Terrance Parker, KDJ, Theo Parrish, Mike Huckaby, Deepchord, The Martian, Aux 88, Le Car, Adult, Perspects, DJ Godfather, Hawtin, Kenny Larkin, James Pennington, Scan 7, Rick Wilheit, Anthony Shakir, Dan Bell, John Beltran, Claude Young... for every one of these guys there were 5 other lesser known dudes. How do you name all these people with their own individual style and say that Detroit is just a myth.

there's also this which seems to be pretty crucial if you want to get jeff mills. (it was to me anyway). all of those choice comps are pretty choice.

i have contact special and it is high-quality, but definitely for the fans. it seems like the original 7" format would have served the songs better and it is a bit of a hybrid b/w aggro-mills and soundtrack-mills. i really need to go back and listen again though.

one man spaceship feels vintage and my thoughts after the first listens were almost exactly, "It's a Jeff Mills album that sounds like Jeff Mills doing a minimal techno album".

i am curious about what is meant by "the sensibility of a jazz drummer". been thinking about that one a lot lately as i think it is deeply misunderstood (especially the first time around...i know i didn't get it)

Mills literally is a jazz drummer.

see also: What's with that constant cymbal tapping in jazz drumming?
What's with that constant cymbal tapping in jazz drumming?

More specifically I meant that they guy plays drums so he is going to think about rhythm a bit differently than a guy who played cello.

PS that comp looks nice, thx for pointing it out.

never knew that!! no wonder i didn't get it. so that is completely separate from "jazz is the teacher" then? and completely separate from jazz "stylings" vs. actual jazz.

in my warped world i think he spins like he's improvising i.e. freedom with rigor

just who is the ornette coleman of techno

"in my warped world i think he spins like he's improvising i.e. freedom with rigor"

and there is this technique of utilizing phrases which i just adore. ok i will go read that other thread now.

Mike, I don't think anyone is trying to deny the massive importance and causal centrality of Detroit to techno. But you and pipecock tend to push further arguments which I just can't accept:

1) That there is a direct and unavoidable link between the influence of Detroit as a geographic location and the quality/nature of the music that is produced there. I have a problem with this only because it's so determinist and because its reductive - I can totally accept that Detroit as a city has had a massive effect on many of its producers and that this can be change how they make their music. But it seems fantastic to suggest that this happens with all techno that comes out of Detroit and that it's something privileged listeners can easily pick up and identify consistently by virtue of having walked the same streets. No music works like that anywhere ever.

2) That techno from Detroit has "soul" and techno from Europe just doesn't - and again this is something that the privileged listener can just hear in the music. This strikes me as a massive, quasi-religious oversimplification of how music works - "soul" becomes a meaningless stand-in for all sorts of things that might actually be going on, much in the same way that "God" does for many people.

3) That Detroit techno is closer to jazz than it is to so-called-techno from Europe. This is mentalist even if Mills approaches techno with the sensibility of a jazz drummer. Pipecock has said this line repeatedly. I can only assume that he dismisses all the jazz influenced house and techno from Europe on the grounds that since they don't have "soul" they can't be part of the great jazz-to-techno lineage even if superficially they are deploying jazz signifiers. Note how all the arguments ultimately rest on this mystic invocation of the undefinable, noumenal soul component at some point.

If we're sticking to the much more limited following claims then I don't think there's an issue - I know Pete Chambers who writes for mnml ssgs and I know he would agree with the following points:

1) That techno as a genre is deeply rooted in Detroit, and that without Detroit techno, electronic dance music would not have developed in the same way that it has (this is different and more measured than saying "no electronic dance music without Detroit").

2) That certain stylistic elements in Detroit techno may have evolved partly through the influence of the experience of living in Detroit.

3) That a lot of Detroit techno feels quite distinct to other music that bears the name of "techno".

4) That certain Detroit techno artists have certain stylistic elements that are modeled on jazz.

I need to work on my grammar.

If you wanted to learn about dub reggae you should go to Jamaica in the 70's or 80's.

This is something that I should clarify. If you want to know about dub you should go there with 10-15 years of the scene's peak because eventually the scene gets buried in time. There are still a ton of people who remember, but time passes. Motown is gone, 70's loft party Detroit is gone, and the techno era is passing on as well as we all get older and more separated by adult life.

I left that sentence in by accident. It was a tangent I didn't mean to go off into.

"If you want to know about dub you should go there with 10-15 years of the scene's peak because eventually the scene gets buried in time. There are still a ton of people who remember, but time passes. Motown is gone, 70's loft party Detroit is gone, and the techno era is passing on as well as we all get older and more separated by adult life."

This is fair enough, but while I've seen you express some humility w/r/t your capacity to understand scenes other than Detroit techno, this is something that, say, pipecock never does. He has supreme confidence in his capacity to understand and explain jazz/soul/2-step garage/whatever. Thus the gatekeeper role adopted vis a vis detroit techno begins to seem both inconsistent and arrogant, merely an excuse to boast about which producers have slept on one's floor and which epochal DJ sets one was lucky enough to witness. It's that kind of stuff which makes detroit techno pietism difficult to bear sometimes.

"Note how all the arguments ultimately rest on this mystic invocation of the undefinable, noumenal soul component at some point."

what happens when "soul" is replaced with "virtuouso"?

if i had to pick something representative of soul and jazz, it would be alice coltrane's journey io satchidananda. it is interesting to try and come up with techno equivalents from either side of the atlantic.