Why is Robert Pollard the most underrated songwritter ever?

I don't get why people hold it against him that he's too prolific. And it makes it all the more absurd that people who think he only wrote a few good songs can explain it through that. As if he's like some monkey banging away at a typewriter who types long enough to eventually produce Shakespeare.

Funny this thread should come up since I hadn't listened to Bee Thousand in about five years. Then today I inexplicably got "Echos Myron" stuck in my head to the point where i had to pull out the LP and give it a listen again. Such a great song. Part of him being underrated as a songwriter is that he's actually a gifted lyricist yet people tend to discount his lyrics as abstract nonsense.

But hey, if you went to a show once and were skeeved by the very devoted, very male crowd, or if you went to the discography and found it inpenetrable and wanted an excuse not to be bothered, or need someone to blame for all the lo-fi or lazy collage art he inspired...he's an easy target.

Time will win out, though, as it since has for the once critically reviled likes of Wordsworth, Led Zeppelin and Peter Falk. Pollard will be the ne plus ultra of ILM saintdom in about the year 2023.

You must be so. fucking. high.

Sean this is a project I would happily undertake...but would that require a separate up/download for each track, or is there a way to do it in one fell swoop?

That said, I think Michael's remark - "it's awfully strange to call Pollard a songwriter" - is OTM, and speaks to the thread-question (which also loaded the dice against itself so badly that you couldn't really expect much reasoned dialogue, I figure). Pollard's got this sixties-pastiche thing going that seems to me, after a short time, rather more like something of a nervous tic or reflexive habit than compositional choice. Now, one might say: "who cares if the aesthetic is intentional or accidental?" but with something as referential/reverential as Pollard's '60s jones it seems fair to ask: what's he trying to do? "Write good songs" seems a disingenuous response, there's too much going on in 'em to think of them as just "here's what I came up with!"

Full disclosure, I can get into a GBV song when I hear one but have never really been able to bring myself to care much otherwise.

Sheer # of amazing amazing 60's-esque Melodies

Greg Cartwright (Oblivians/Compulsive Gamblers/Reigning Sound) not only matches him but thoroughly beats him at it.

It seems if he’d presented his songs (they are songs!) in a single guise — a dozen albums produced by Jon Brion or whatever with I don’t know Ry fucking Cooder, he’d be getting enormous props around here. If anything, Pollard’s sin is probably so unabashedly loving rock music (!), which turns out to be just NOT COOL. A lot of people can’t stomach the references without the wink-wink or the angular haircut. But for Pollard the aesthetic is inextricable to “writing good songs.” He’s a naïf -- the leg kicks are no joke -- and when that sincerity touches some sing-along schmuck in a backwards cap it rubs people wrong, especially people who have slotted him “indie rock” (which, btw, he is CONSTANTLY apologizing for/denouncing…)

This just isn't true - I had a huge paragraph arguing with it, but what would be the point? I think people have honest aesthetic reasons for disliking GBV, you've got this demonstrably false notion that Pollard isn't mega-famous because the sneering literati wanna keep him down or something. It doesn't matter, at any rate, whether he denounces indie rock; so does every other indie rock luminary, it goes with the territory!

*,** The answer to both of these questions would, of course, be pretty simple: absurd productivity, unwillingness to leave Dayton, lack of a breakout "Float On"-like single, beer, the bad timing of the move to hi-fi production coinciding with a creative lull.

For the record, I thought "Teenage FBI" was going to be huge. The fact that this was not licensed to every teen-comedy soundtrack in 1999 is a spectacular marketing failure.

Because they are? If not, please prove otherwise.

most artists eke out one or two songs out of a career of approximately hundreds, he makes 10 incredible songs out of thousands. why do we hold someone in such high esteem if, mathematically speaking, his ratio for delivering the goods was so incredibly low?

furthermore, pollard had plenty of editors willing to assist him -- its a shame his stubborn attitude got in the way.

I'm going to open myself up to ridicule here, but I'd like to state that BP's new "Coast To Coast Carpet Of Love" is quite lovely indeed. I haven't picked up "Standard Gargoyle Delusions" yet, but I've been pleasantly surprised by how consistent he's been since climbing aboard the Merge train.

Okay, fire away!

i'm down w/guided by voices

neither of the 2 new ones are as good as "normal happiness" from last year or the takeovers' "bad football" from this year

"standard gargoyle decisions" has a fantastic album cover though

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WXe9FjSrL._SS500_.jpg

and "customer's throat" is a great tune

I would just like to say that Pollard's last decade of work is WAY too Genesis-influenced to be called "straight-no-chaser indie rock." There is some serious ass chaser in it.

Has anyone heard the new single?It's fantastic.From his new album-"Robert Pollard is Off To Business".I believe that's the title.Anyway,great stuff as usual.

matthew smith from outrageous cherry writes better melodies and has a much higher hit rate

LOL at outrageous cherry.

And you know,I like outrageous cherry.Still,it's like comparing cherries and oranges.

what's to lol? they're a top band who has made a stack of great records

As has GBV/Pollard solo etc.I just think Outrageous Cherry doesn't have that distinct of a sound.Whatever influences Pollard might be mining at the moment he makes sure to infuse it with his own warped flavor.You can mistake O.C. for someone else.I think that would be more difficult with a good portion of the Pollard stuff.Plus-he wrote a song called "Kicker Of Elves".I mean come on.

look i like pollard but i don't agree with your take on OC. i'm willing to accept that as a heavily immersed fan i don't see the wood for the trees but that's not really here or there.

pollard's quirky titles have never really been a big part of his appeal to me, i don't particularly understand why people get so excited about them. sometimes they just let the lyrics down.

whats going on with Outrageous Cherry/Smith anyway?
it's been a while since their last record

i know that they changed rhythm sections again, i'm hanging for a newie but i think it's only been a bit over a year so there's still time

actually yeah it's more like 18 months now..

somehow it looks longer.
anyway, the last isuued Smith involved project is the last Monster Island record - children of mu

Yep.Still rules.

That new Boston Spaceships record is actually very good.Pollard's voice is rather high here somehow, and the sonwriting is constantly good

i thought his last few solo albums on matador were really, really crap. it would be nice to hear something good and new from him again

they were. but this is good.
dont expect anything new in terms of production/style, but at least the songwriting is better.(and at the worst, it's harmless)

When I first got into Pollard/GBV I bought Alien Lanes and From A Compound Eye((which was my fave album of 2006 next to Scott Walker's Drift))), one of my friends and a whole bunch of reviewers made me realise lots of people hate him for some reason.

I've been buying every new Pollard album since then and the occasional GBV and I dont really understand why people think he has gone downhill. I dont mind at all that he could have saved up his best songs to make fewer, better albums, I'm just amazed that anyone can make so much music that I never get bored of. The usual is 3-6 amazing songs are decent/good, but I've yet to find any of them shit. I'm not gonna be one of those guys that hails every track as genius, but I do think Pollard is a genius. I think it's crazy just how much is going on in each song and that I'm probably not even going to realise much about any of those songs.

I tend to like a lot of the songs that people hate. I thought the Silverfish Trivia EP was as good as Alien Lanes and "Cats Love A Parade" was incredible, lots of people hated it.
I was really impressed with "Waves" too, I hope that Pollard will explore ambient music or already has in a record I have yet to buy.

I've never got the chance to got to one of his concerts yet or meet another fan of his, so I dont really understand the hostility.

I will buy all his records if I can find them.

the way i always saw it was that the guy could have, i suppose, released a record every three years with ten great songs on it, but he just didn't want to. as with ANY songwriter, he's got songs that clearly aren't up to par with the best of his tunes (aside: people who worship the ground the guy walks on and think that >50% of his songs are great are really really nuts, and terribly deluded). the difference is, he decided to release just about every idea that he wrote down, which diluted a lot of his work and made many of his albums not work as a whole as much. but why is this a bad thing? sure, the records themselves aren't all classics (though there are two or three that are, imo), but there isn't really anyone with a legitimate opinion who thinks they all are. and i'm not really offended by it and don't see the practice of releasing two or three uneven records a year as cash-grabbing, because how many records has the guys sold combined? a million? less?
sorry this is so poorly written but i think my point is that he's not an album artist but rather someone whose entire body of work is available and you can pick which songs you like. if you can get over that, there's a LOT of really, really incredible songs (and hundreds of worthless ones).

Dude rules. He's rated accurately, which is to say- he's underrated. Have you guys heard the Cosmos record. With Richard Davies? Should be more discussion. It's really good.

haha, who's sock was this?

It belonged to Anthony Kiedis.

Haven't heard the Cosmos record yet, still catching up some of his other 2009 releases. This week I've been on a really big Circus Devils kick, particularly Sgt. Disco and Ataxia. I love the dark, creepy vibe that pervades many of these songs. There's also a much higher percentage of real hooks on these, as compared to the earlier Circus Devils albums, so maybe just a little "easier" to absorb. I got Gringo off iTunes the other night, but haven't spent any time with it yet.

Gringo kinda sucked, though I've got no real incentive to meet the guy halfway anymore - i'm fine w/ living with his 90s stuff forever

I long ago gave up on buying (or even listening) to the recs he made. The sheer volume just drove me away. But I do agree the guy writes some pretty good tunes. Sadly he isn't a very good editor.

Oh yeah, I won't argue about the editing thing... but I've discovered that even pulling out a record I'd dismissed years ago, some new gem shines through and I realize how truly great he can be.

No doubt. It's just becoming less and less worth it as his hit to miss ratio decreases with time

xpost I'm just too lazy to make it work, y'know, fuck that, I don't wanna weed through the mediocre songs. Thing is, that all his recs have gems, but I'm just not that big of a fangirl to put energy into it, y'know. Not even with my favourite band dEUS.

Author Matthew Cutter is a longtime friend of Pollard

This is not good though.

Yeah not ideal but anyway I'm not reading for some kind of takedown

I am okay w hagiography if the subject is p much someone slogging it out on the margins

yeah i don't really mind, and it's not like bob is super mysterious

Posted on the/a GBV thread, but they killed it here the night before New Year's. Three hour set! And then they did it again in NYE I guess.

Is Sprout still in band?

They were indeed good at Empty Bottle! I was at that same show! No Sprout isn't in band - but that's ok Bobby Bare Jr is a nice foil for Doug Gillard and the band all around smokes. Kevin March is an excellent drummer for them!

Yeah not ideal but anyway I'm not reading for some kind of takedown

Did you read Jim Greer's book on GBV? All those tedious tales of Bob and his boring boozing buddies yukking it up down in Bob's basement? I'm not expecting a takedown but, if you're going to write a book on Pollard, a little distance would be preferable because the guy seems to have surrounded himself with boosters and cheerleaders and enablers - no women though, of course.

Ugh Doug Gillard sucks

I guess he’s the best steady Bob could get
But damn he’s got no soul man

This is a Bob thread, I get it, but he shouldn’t be advertising GBV without his club dudes

Yes, I think he's a good foil but I don't really like his guitar playing.

It’s too exact

too orthodox

i not only read the jim greer book, but attended a book tour event, which was my first (and only) time meeting bob p

I read the Greer book, it was whatever. I'm definitely not interested in an analysis of why there are no women in the band. I would be very up for nerding out on his process (beyond Rolling Rock), song germination, takes on his peers and other musicians/artists etc.

I appreciate Gillard for his versatility. He never sounds like he's really bleeding for it like Mitch Mitchell did, but there's a lot of mid- and later-period Pollard stuff that calls for greater range