Juan Atkins has never had a S&D thread...

And for comparisons ....

Juan Atkins - Metroplex 1985-2005 (http://www.discogs.com/release/441574)

1-01 Cybotron Alleys Of Your Mind (3:34)
1-02 Model 500 Future (4:54)
1-03 Model 500 Starlight (6:27)
1-04 Model 500 Vessels In Distress (5:20)
1-05 Channel One Technicolor (6:50)
1-06 Model 500 The Chase (5:42)
1-07 Cybotron R9 (5:15)
1-08 Infiniti Game One (5:40)
1-09 3MB Jazz Is The Teacher (9:41)
Featuring - Magic Juan
1-10 Cybotron Cosmic Cars (4:23)
1-11 Model 500 Wanna Be There (6:44)
2-01 Cybotron Clear (4:55)
2-02 Cybotron Dreammaker (5:44)
2-03 Infiniti Skyway (5:55)
2-04 Model 500 No UFO's (7:04)
2-05 Model 500 Nightdrive (Thru Babylon) (6:11)
2-06 Model 500 Ocean To Ocean (5:49)
2-07 Juan Atkins Something About The Music (3:50)
2-08 Model 500 Off To Battle (6:05)
2-09 Cybotron Cosmic Raindance (4:02)
2-10 Model 500 The Flow (4:18)
2-11 Visions Other Side Of Life (5:08)
2-12 Model 500 The Passage (7:30)

Model 500 - Classics (http://www.discogs.com/release/12417)

1 No UFO's (Remix) (6:58)
2 The Chase (Smooth Mix) (5:42)
3 Off To Battle (Remix) (6:04)
4 Night Drive (Time, Space, Transmat) (6:04)
5 Electric Entourage (6:46)
6 Electronic (Remix) (6:00)
7 Ocean To Ocean (Instrumental) (6:42)
8 Techno Music (M500 Version) (5:35)
9 Sound Of Stereo (6:51)

I'm not really complaining, there are some liner notes, but the sparseness of details about each of the tracks (I'd at least like to know *exactly* when each track was from, for whatever reason) and the basic to non-existent artwork makes me a tiny bit sad.

It is still a shame that Deep Space isn't the first record that comes to mind when people make their best 90's electronic album lists. I have a feeling that this comp will do a lot of remedy the situation.

I would have liked to see Infoworld on this comp as well; still, it is damn good.

How was the Berlin Sessions record? I haven't heard it yet, and Austin doesn't have a specialist dance record store.

The Roots of Techno

Juan Atkins was playing techno when most of its current practitioners were playing in the schoolyard.

By Dan Sicko

Berry Gordy's Motown may no longer rule the airwaves, but Detroit has found a new beat. Since 1981, the compositions of techno visionary Juan Atkins have sent shock waves through contemporary music. On the heels of the German group Kraftwerk, he and partner Rick Davis formed Cybotron, fusing austere European techno-pop with street-level funk. In 1985, Atkins formed Metroplex Records, not knowing that his unique brand of techno would soon inspire the anthems and soundtracks of the digital age -- the latest world music.

Wired spoke with Atkins about his early inspirations and how they may bring about musical metamorphosis on a wider scale. His current projects include the 12-inch single "I See the Light" (Metroplex, Detroit) and the LP Sonic Sunset (R&S Records, Belgium), both under the moniker "Model 500."

Wired: What is your definition of techno? Is it essentially a combination of technology and funk?

Atkins:

Yes. It's interesting, because I met Karl Bartos (formerly of Kraftwerk) and he told me that one of his influences was

James Brown. Today, I think "techno" is a term to describe and introduce all kinds of electronic music. In fact, there were a lot of electronic musicians around when Cybotron started, and
I think maybe half of them referred to their music as "techno." However, the public really wasn't ready for it until about '85 or '86. It just so happened that Detroit was there when people really got into it.

What separates Detroit techno from other music, like Chicago's house movement?

It's always been about insight and forward thinking. It goes as far as the science fiction I was into early on and the class I took in high school called "Future Studies." One of the textbooks I had to read was Alvin Toffler's Future Shock. Also, Detroit is unlike any other city in the transitions it has endured. When your surroundings change, you go through change.

You've said elsewhere that the term "techno"was partially taken from Toffler's term "techno-rebels" in The Third Wave -- those who didn't see the need for technology to be overwhelming or alienating. Does this concept have anything to do with techno's use of older analog synthesizers or keeping the production of vinyl alive?

We never tried to apply any of those principles. The Third Wave was only inspirational, although we did use hybrid words like "cybotron" and "metroplex," and Toffler spoke of these futuristic combinations.

Techno-rebels notwithstanding, some technologies are absorbed very quickly into our culture. Does it surprise you how slowly the United States has embraced electronic music, dance-oriented or otherwise?

Not surprised, really. Disappointed is the word. I was more surprised when I first went to Europe and found that white kids could enjoy dance music. In this country it's very hard for creative thought to escape capitalism.

How then do you explain the emergence of Detroit as an aesthetic Mecca for electronic dance music, as opposed to larger cities like New York and LA?

Let's remember Detroit is representative of the whole Industrial Revolution. When that came to a close, it was the first place hit. And because of its lack of status, it's a lot more depressed than other areas. That forces people to be creative.

This creativity and work ethic, although a social requirement of sorts, hasn't led to real status in the American music industry. Why is it that you and other Detroit techno artists aren't officially recognized as high-caliber musicians and producers?

You have to wonder how, with as much press as we have received worldwide, why we still don't have a proper record deal. (Pauses.) Maybe in the marketing departments out there, there really are people who think that a white techno act is more marketable than a black one.... I don't know.

What do you think is the problem with the way music is presented to the masses?

There has to be a revolution in radio in America. Instead of me complaining, I'd rather take an active role as a program director and change all that. If I'm the only guy to take a station and set an example, then that's what I'll do. I can also guarantee that this station would be Number One in its market within a year.

There are signs of this "neo-urban" music starting to flourish: LA's URB Magazine, more and more stateside techno tours. Is this the kind of movement you're hoping for?

Yes. Definitely. There is no outlet for (techno artists). Right now they put out 12-inch singles and sell 2,000 to 3,000 copies and get discouraged. The basic problem is that in America, if you don't fit into a radio format, you don't really exist.

Given the structured and commercial nature of radio, do you see those conventions bending to variety and innovation? Even public radio seems to be "going corporate" these days.

However I have to get into radio -- digital cable FM, low-power radio -- that's what I'll do. I want to see techno take off on a major level, and I don't agree that as soon as the money comes in, it will dilute the quality of the music.

You've said that people are ready for something different, that they have caught up with technology to a certain degree. What kind of encouragement do you have that radio will not continue to stagnate?

There was a time seven or eight years ago when you could go into a city and four out of five people didn't know what a sequencer was. Now maybe one out of five doesn't. There is a ton of music here, kids are buying Roland and Korg keyboards. And what are they doing? They're not making ballads!

Metroplex Records: fax +1 (313) 963 0213.

Black to the Future
Juan Atkins on the vision thing
by Derrick Mathis

Jaun Atkins

It's the age-old thing of black America inventing something and white England digging it and working it out into a more palatable form. You'd say all the stars are English, but the guys I name as my heroes are black Americans.

--Norman Cook,
a.k.a. Fatboy Slim, in Playboy

JUAN ATKINS, A.K.A. THE GODFATHER OF TECHNO, recently landed his first multi-record deal with an American label. Read that sentence again. Notice the word recently. Now consider this. It was 1981 when Detroit sent out a new groove that reverberated around the world. And the DNA strands of that groove were created by Juan Atkins and his partner Rick Davis, who formed Cybotron and cranked out what are now considered some of finest pieces of electronic experimentation today, including "Clear," "Techno City" and the haunting "Visions."

In '84, after parting ways with Davis, Atkins, under the moniker Model 500, produced what some call the most essential body of techno to date. Around this time Atkins began collaborating on some projects with high school mates Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson. All three went on to become internationally respected producers and performers, referred to collectively in the dance music community as "the innovators."

But among the trio, Atkins alone is consistently referred to as the originator. An Angeleno for the past two years, he spends every weekend on the road playing gigs around the country. This has been an exceptionally prolific year for Atkins. Right off the heels of the Detroit Electronic Music Festival, the release of his new album, and a well-publicized licensing deal with Ford Motor Company for the use of his 1985 Model 500 classic "No UFOs," Atkins talked with the Weekly about the state of dance music and the future of the black DJ.

L.A. WEEKLY: Why did you go into dance music instead of hip-hop?

ATKINS: Hip-hop was too slow. Believe it or not, that's the only reason. I've never not been into it. But you know, when you go to a club, you want some shit that's gonna make your blood pump.

You've been doing raves since the mid-'80s -- you started early on in the underground U.K. parties. How does the rave scene over here compare to the scene in Britain?

The U.S. scene doesn't have the same intensity. The Brits have been traditionally really progressive in terms of music. So when dance music made its way to Europe, they embraced it wholeheartedly. Dance music here is still seen as black music. Let's face it, the music -- disco, techno and trance -- it's all based on urban music. I think in America we have this institutionalized racism, and I think a lot of kids somewhere in the back of their minds know this. I think that eventually dance music is gonna blow up here in the States bigger than what it already is. But to make that happen, what they need is a homogenized, whitened version of it. I think that's what trance is.

Your music, techno, derived from funk and soul -- black music. Many people are still unaware that trance more or less evolved out of techno. Does it bother you that trance is gaining so much popularity here in the States?

I'd have to say that I'm affected by it and somewhat disappointed. I don't play much trance music. Fact is, trance -- it has no life, no soul. It's almost like marching music. There's nothing to it.

It's interesting that Area: One's biggest headliner was Paul Oakenfold, who has basically built his career off of trance. Reportedly, he was paid a million dollars for that tour.

I heard the same thing, and I think that's outrageous. Here's a guy who will go on record and say that Derrick, Kevin and myself brought techno to England. That music wasn't around when we went to the U.K., and here he is making a million bucks a tour.

Back in '94, in talking about your difficulties in getting a record deal, you told an interviewer that you thought U.S. record companies saw white techno artists as more marketable than black ones. Do you think this bias led to the success of white DJs and electronic artists like Oakenfold and particularly Moby, since his sampling of hip-hop, gospel and the blues pretty much served as the backbone for his top-selling album Play?

Well, let's take Eminem, for instance. Now, there's an area of music -- rap music -- that's inherently black. You really gotta have some credibility to hang in that game. But once the music industry found a white dude who had some credibility -- don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take anything away from Eminem -- matter of fact, I kinda like him 'cause he's from Detroit and knows who I am. But look how quick he blew up. He's more famous than any other rapper on the set right now. It was like they were waiting for someone like that.

Do you see the history of rock & roll repeating itself?

Man, check this out: I can play a record for you that was made by a black dude -- one of my homeboys in Detroit. He made the track that trance evolved from. He's called Red Planet. "Star Dancer" is the name of the track, and it's the original prototype for trance music. But right now trance is the same thing in dance as what heavy metal is to rock & roll. Or, like rock & roll is to blues. With trance, history repeats itself -- it was black dudes that created rock & roll. America still has a lot of racial barriers erected. You're not gonna make me believe that the music industry is any different than any other industry when you've got 70, 80 percent white people running it. You're gonna have race issues -- even if they're unintentional. And yeah, I think blacks are about to be excluded from dance like they were excluded from rock & roll. It's not that anyone's going to physically do it, it's that they're gonna take so much of the soul out of it that blacks are not going to want to get into it.

 But you're a black DJ who spins at a lot of raves. That scene's made up primarily of young white kids, who are, from what I understand, really into your shit.

That's precisely the thing that makes what I do so much harder, because when I go to a record company they expect a black dude to come in the door with R&B or rap. That's what's different between Europe and the U.S.

 You're not coming to the table with the expected goods.

There's nothing in America that's conducive to a groundbreaking black alternative artist -- that's something that upsets me. It's the reason why dance music and techno had to go to Europe and come back -- because of the racial attitudes here in America.

 But it seems like your new label, Om Records up in San Francisco, is trying to develop a name for itself as the soul lover's deep-house label by signing jocks like Chicago's Mark Grant, Marques Wyatt and yourself . . . like they're trying to get a monopoly on all the brothas.

Yeah, they're dedicated to the real deal.

 What does the real deal mean to you?

Brothas doing their thing. You're always gonna have people that are gonna want to hear the real shit. I remember a long time ago when I used to go to the Parliament Funkadelic concerts, and you always had about seven or eight rows of white kids sitting in the front religiously 'cause they wanted to hear the real deal. So there's always gonna be people who want to hear the real deal.

And holy shit Mike Taylor is OTM -- "Jazz Is the Teacher" (which I'd never heard) is phenomenal!

Not to steer off course, but what is the deal with Tresor lately? My local record store just dropped #s 215 and 216 (both Atkins), but otherwise I haven't seen ANYTHING in at least a year....

Now the dust has settled on the first wave of that Detroit techno thing, it's his music that shines the most. The only one to avoid is 'Mind and Body', perhaps. It's not bad, it's just a little safe and smooth. It has its moments.

I think Deep Space and the 12" The Passage (which sounds a little like John Foxx circa The Garden in the strings) are my favourites. As for Clear, that track is a masterstroke that has not aged one bit, as Missy obviously knows.

Incidentally, Erik Davis is still at large as Cybertron, so it seems.

He spun "Clear" and the "Lose Control" instrumental back-to-back at P.S. 1 on Saturday.

http://fourfour.typepad.com/fourfour/2005/07/play_it_schizo.html

I know that in addition to the tracks I name, his set included some techno classics. But that isn't my field of expertise so I don't have any names.

Also his 3 (re)mixes of Low Res' Amuck (Sublime#12). Sort of Infiniti-mässig, nicht wahr? Esp. the 1st.

Okay "The Flow (G-Funk Mix)" is canyon-deep.

love for jazz is the teacher, and future, most of all

vessels in distress is kinda drexciya meets depeche mode!

I really like Skynet too, it's a great cohesive hour.

Looking forward to seeing M500 live tomorrow night at the DEMF. I expect nothing but surprises...

Still indignant about the dude maligning Skynet at the top of this thread.

"Never Tempt Me" has such great vocals, the album's tootling along nicely and then you get this near-fuzz bassline and drawly voice and everything steps up to another level.

see there were 'Game One' remixes last year. any good?

i also love 'Rebound' and 'Idea 1' from the 'Futurepast EP' - these MUST be older than 2004 tho ('I-94' is on this as well so all from the same time - all v playful sounding).

22. Juan Atkins - Other side of life
had never heard this until i got this CD - so great + his Inner City moment

Model 500's "The Chase" sounds like something I would want to hear in a tropical coast level of a Sega CD era racing game.

haha yeah totally, it reminds me of the out-run soundtrack, something about that midi guitar line

http://www.discogs.com/release/19657

haha yeah totally, it reminds me of the out-run soundtrack, something about that midi guitar line

-- r1o natsume, Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:43 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

Strangely I was reading an interview with a Sega music guy before I listened to this and it just seemed right.

R&S are reissuing Model 500's Classics along with a few other albums on CD (Aphex Twin's SAW1, Ken Ishii's Jelly Tones). Beatport are advertising Deep Space as part of the series, but I don't know if that's coming out physically or if it's download-only.

TAKING SIDES
TAKING SIDES
TAKING SIDES

INFINITI

vs

MODEL 500

M500

game one vs cosmic courier

i might vote for infiniti ... do we need track by track breakdown?

Everyone (except Vahid Mk I) OTM about Deep Space - esp. Mike when he says "I think he managed to nail the "Detroit techno as future jazz" tag on several cuts with this album."

Also I agree with this:

"Now the dust has settled on the first wave of that Detroit techno thing, it's his music that shines the most."

it took a

enigmatic!

oops

it took a while for "deep space" to click with me but it finally did.

still, i really do still think that his "infiniti" work is better than his "model 500" work. there are great model 500 tracks like "starlight" and "i wanna be there" but "game one" lords over them all and i think the infiniti albums are really amazing when taken as whole works, much more so than "mind and body" and with an edge over "deep space".

i should proofread my posts for redundancy

Vahid you didn't respond to my Quentin Harris questions on the Dennis Ferrer thread :-(

I agree with vahid re Infiniti>Model 500, to the extent that when i saw M500 live a few weeks back the enjoyment was stifled by this colossal urge to want to hear 'game one', 'i-94', 'skyway' and 'rebound' alongside 'cosmic cars' etc.

Track down the remix of Annette's Dream 17 and you might change your mind about Derrick. Juan and Derrick are about equal in the 80's. The 90's are a different story...

anyone going to see him tonight?

torn knee ligament here :(

how was juan atkins last night ?

pretty good-- he played a lot more proto-house and house than i expected, but also did some major detroit damage too. well worth it!

he was great! i missed the beginning of his set, but he finished with some disco classics; karen young "hot shot," young & company "i like what youre doing to me," etc. there's a review on this blog: http://bananaspam.blogspot.com/2008/08/juan-atkins-at-bodyheat-part-two.html

What about remixes? I have this vague recollection of Dan Sicko talking about something that JA remixed on a small Detroit label around a decade ago that was supposed to be amazing.

TAKING SIDES

INFINITI

vs

MODEL 500

I actually like Infiniti and cybotron stuff better than M500 overall

don't force me to choose! it will hurt. how about a top 5 tracks instead?
1. Cybotron "Enter"
2. Model 500 "Starlight"
3. Model 500 "Night Drive"
4. Infiniti "Game One'
5. Model 600 "Update"

yeah it is a canonical list but the canon is a canon for a reason. also i haven't heard skynet net, i just have the single.

To understand the marvel that is Deep Space, you need to suck deep on the Devil's weed.

"starlight" remixes on echospace ... gilding the lily, or what?

time, space, transmat

the track is by "sebbo", not "sebo k". jeez guys, can't we find a better name?

yeah thanks for that 'pipecock'

o_O username

"i get what you're saying, but ... i can't kick this feeling when it hits ...

man i loved both sides (well, i bought the mp3s) of that sebbo single!"

well it seems to me that most of the Detroit dub techno crowd puts a heavy emphasis on their sound creation techniques from Rod Modell's field recordings and crazy tweaking to Huckaby's mastering of the Waldorf Wave synthesizer. to me that is much less "by the numbers" than just sampling the guys who created the genre in the first place.....

"i bought "ocean to ocean" today. i never knew "infoworld" had an actual vinyl release. wooooooooo

― tricky"

gotta love that whole 12"!

the field recordings are definitely a nice touch and it's true that mastery of gear (even software gear) is admirable, but i think sometimes that these discussions come down to whether the songs are good or not regardless of the blood sweat and tears that went into their creation. the original sebbo is a great mixing tool because of the way it builds through the chanting. it sounds even better if you play it with the moritz von oswald remix at the same time.

"the field recordings are definitely a nice touch and it's true that mastery of gear (even software gear) is admirable, but i think sometimes that these discussions come down to whether the songs are good or not regardless of the blood sweat and tears that went into their creation."

i'm not going to disagree with that, the final product is always the most important thing. of course to me, most Huckaby and a pretty decent % of Deepchord stuff has a high quality final product. i still listen to Basic Channel and Rhythm and Sound much more than any of the knock offs, though that Incense & Blacklight has been getting lots of play from me this year.

"the original sebbo is a great mixing tool because of the way it builds through the chanting. it sounds even better if you play it with the moritz von oswald remix at the same time.

― tricky"

i like the moritz mix, which is really a whole other track that to my ears has nothing to do with the "original" which i listened to once when i got the record in the mail. it doesn't do it for me.

yeah the remix is definitely the better of the two. the way it ends is like a study of how to very delicately dismember an entire track through dubbing until it dissolves into nothing. at the same time it's like this total swamp of sound. one of these days i will pick up the record.

"yeah the remix is definitely the better of the two. the way it ends is like a study of how to very delicately dismember an entire track through dubbing until it dissolves into nothing. at the same time it's like this total swamp of sound. one of these days i will pick up the record.

― tricky"

indeed, it really does almost completely go away. i did this really nice mix one day that i didnt record in which i was mixing out of the Watamu Beach rmx into M5, it really sounded like they belonged together with the wispyness of the end of the WBrmx floating over the deep beats of the Maurizio jam. i was pretty impressed with myself ;)

haha that is why i record everything! i end up with lots and lots of crap, but there are always ideas worth salvaging. i was listening to this old swayzak mix today and they segued from a really early ellen allien electro track into maurizio by simply letting the allien track play out, but it was one of the best transitions in the mix. it was just yeahhhhhh..super smooth.

i'm usually too lazy to fire up the computer, plus my off the cuff mixes are usually just me forcing whatever new things i've picked up in any genre together which tends to have poor results just about 100% of the time. M5, M7, and Phylyps Trak II are just about always close by because they go so well with just about anything!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T71yV387H8

How fucking spacey amazing is this?

pretty fucking spacey amazing

Saw Model 500 live last weekend at Paradiso as part of Sonic Acts (same evening/venue as Pauline Oliveros!), and they were astonishing - one of the best gigs I've been to in ages; up there w/Kraftwerk. Had no idea it was a four-dude-at-synths affair live, and that one of said dudes was Mike Banks!

picked up "deep space for pennies" largely it is STINKAH!

'Mind & Body' might be worthy of a minor re-appraisal. Amidst the pooh there's a couple of decent tracks - namely It's time, Tipsy and Incredible (dated vocals not withstanding). His collab with 4hero (The Fusion Formula) is probably his best foray into d&b however.

He always brings some great tunes as a DJ (plus some clunkers!)