no substantial defense of the music has been raised other than "teenage girls are actually like this persona though" and "here's some awful lines + some fan art of kitty pryde"
that's not true. i've explained what i think is interesting about KP's writing, vocal style and persona. others have done the same. no one's spent a great deal of time elaborating these arguments, but no one has spent any time engaging with them or offering any kind of criticism beyond "lol she sucks".
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:51 (eleven years ago) link
rtc is like a coldblooded assasin of music snobbery & he called it "prime mf doom" (lol) & his single post itt in defence of this song is more valuable than your hundreds of posts handwringing about what is "good" and can we really say that this is "bad"
― flopson, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:52 (eleven years ago) link
this girl has the personality of a teenager's tumblr. Her music is a trail of references spoken in a lazy way over lame 'cloud rap' production, which is already a dishwater dull genre as is. there's really nothing to engage w/ here imo.
― man down (D-40), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:52 (eleven years ago) link
ie to break this chick's balls from the perspective of rap music is imo misguided and irrelevant
― r|t|c, Monday, May 14, 2012 7:51 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think that the rap comparisons are less abt it failing on rap's terms & more why 'rap's terms' are such a detriment to high level coverage vs. 'tumblr twee terms'
― man down (D-40), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:53 (eleven years ago) link
guess what NME praised the teenagers (french band) for ... if you guessed "self-aware" and "clever" you guessed right!
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:53 (eleven years ago) link
it is some fucking level of paralysis-by-analysis when you have trouble saying that this music is not good
― call all destroyer, Monday, 14 May 2012 20:48 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― flopson, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:54 (eleven years ago) link
afaict contenderizer your reasons for liking this music were
"smart & funny" ... "POV cuz it's relatable, cleverly articulated and not often represented in her genre"
also "the giggly shit and passivity probably read "real" to the people who are into it"
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:55 (eleven years ago) link
"not often represented in her genre" = ... brings something fresh to the tired guns'n'hos cliches of the rap genre = surefire way to get people's goat on ilm
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:56 (eleven years ago) link
late great, what's the end game here? you tear contenderizer's spine out through his throat and the words 'fatality' stream across the ilx screen in blood?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:56 (eleven years ago) link
that would be sweet
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:57 (eleven years ago) link
can we make that happen?
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:58 (eleven years ago) link
and i don't understand what kind of "substantial critique" you'd be willing to accept when you've already claimed nobody here is qualified to hold an opinion of it because we're not teenage girls
uh, i know you hate this, but that isn't exactly what i said. i said that i have trouble relating to KP's style and persona, personally, and that i suspect that this is largely a product of what she embodies/represents: this specific version of teenage girlhood. like, i'm repelled not by a lack of quality, but by cultural difference. i wonder whether other people are similarly repelled. i wonder whether adult male music nerds as a group might be poorly suited to "getting" this music (and, sure, i suspect that this is actually the case).
but i'm not saying that i won't accept other opinions. i'm interested in other opinions. i'm especially interested in other people's analysis. what i'm not particularly interested in are "thumbs up"/"thumbs down" type verdicts.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:58 (eleven years ago) link
late great, what's the end game here? you tear contenderizer's spine out through his throat and the words 'fatality' stream across the ilx screen in blood?― Mordy, Monday, May 14, 2012 8:56 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy, Monday, May 14, 2012 8:56 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
contenderizer already proved he has no spine by stanning for kitty pryde
― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
(hold block) up up xxp
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:00 (eleven years ago) link
here's my analysis: i don't really give a fuck what she's rapping about. she sounds like mc paul barman. i don't like mc paul barman.
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:00 (eleven years ago) link
― man down (D-40), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:52 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark
yeah that is 100% otm except for the fact that this particular teen's tumblr is, for some, pretty engageable
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:00 (eleven years ago) link
this girl has the personality of a teenager's tumblr. Her music is a trail of references spoken in a lazy way over lame 'cloud rap' production
what's wrong with "the personality of a teenager's tumblr"? it depends on the teenager, right? no group is intrinsically more or less interesting than any other. and lots of lyrics i like could be described as a "trail of references".
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:01 (eleven years ago) link
well, it seems to be the least popular position available here, so...
and i don't like her music much, ftr
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:02 (eleven years ago) link
― man down (D-40), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:53 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
oh man what is this just the weeknd thread again?
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:02 (eleven years ago) link
cos if it is sarge better get his seinfeld gif out againt
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
sometimes contenderizer i'll realize that i'm arguing about something i'm not actually so invested in, and i'll decide that considering my lack of investment in the work, the amount of effort i'm putting into defending it isn't worth it. at that point i find something else to do.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:03 (eleven years ago) link
no group is intrinsically more or less interesting than any other
and that's why this year's oscar goes to ... VEGGIE TALES!
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:04 (eleven years ago) link
then people need to step back, because that's an absurd projection. there are a great many voices that aren't often represented in every genre. that's fine, but it does tend to make voices that are less often represented seem somewhat novel, and there's nothing wrong with that, either.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:06 (eleven years ago) link
shit, i might as well get it from all sides.
i'm interested in this discussion. i'm interested in the way this music relates to the culture at large. i'm interested in how people evaluate it and why. if that's not interest enough to justify my presence in this thread to you, then i don't know what to say.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:07 (eleven years ago) link
like, i'm repelled not by a lack of quality, but by cultural difference
but she's not from a different culture! she's from the same culture as me! she has a supreme sticker on her laptop! i have like 20 supreme stickers! (in a drawer)
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:08 (eleven years ago) link
comparing one work in one medium to a different whole medium is just useless. this song is like a BOOK! that's good! this song is like a TUMBLR! that's bad! if you're operating at the same level of discourse as dj khaled that just stfu and go make moooovieeeees
― kitty shayme (some dude), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:09 (eleven years ago) link
tbh, i kinda think you'd get more mileage out of this by just saying she's interesting from an anthropological perspective and being done with the hair splitting xxp
also
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zKzS1ayZ3wM/SfIXBSEROGI/AAAAAAAAAi4/SSFGF_CY4SA/s1600/malley+pryde.jpg
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:10 (eleven years ago) link
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/HangmenHeaven/Response%20Face/Hansen_blank_background.jpg
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:14 (eleven years ago) link
tbh i have only really listened to 'ok cupid' but the only 'reference' i can remember from that track is frank ocean
― max, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:14 (eleven years ago) link
pfft. i was reading kitty pryde comics when i was 10. my love is platonic. xp
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:15 (eleven years ago) link
Kitty expressed a romantic interest in Colossus early into her time with the X-Men. This did not sit well with Marvel Comics' editor-in-chief at the time, Jim Shooter, who disapproved of the suggestion that a 19-year-old was sleeping with a 14-year-old girl.
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:15 (eleven years ago) link
there was no suggestion iirc, she just had a crush on him?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:16 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, exactly. i could expand on that, go into the way "justin bieber" starts out aggressively dumb-simple but then develops lyrical and rhythmic complexity, the way it flaunts but also sarcastically subverts its own dorkiness without ever denying it, the way her performances push back and forth between "i'm just goofing" and "i'm really doing this" to engaging effect, the specificity subtlety and authenticity of the POV she articulates. right? these are things we could talk about if we wanted.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:18 (eleven years ago) link
well, really only you can talk about them since they're your opinions
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:22 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, but you know what i mean. the cultural island inhabited by teenage girls (and especially by the specific aspects of teenage girlhood to which KP's devoting herself at this point) is not often "shared" with, deeply understood by or terribly well respected by adult men. that's a good thing, probably!
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:28 (eleven years ago) link
man if everybody on this thread was in group therapy together instead of the internet then this thread would be a very intense phase in the group's growth because there is a lot going on here imo that has to do with self-identification thru music & "ownership" of genre etc & a lot of that shit runs super deep for a lot of people & especially for music dudes
and has less, it goes w/o saying, to do with an artist who literally everybody will have trouble remembering in 2014
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:29 (eleven years ago) link
i kinda think you'd get more mileage out of this by just saying she's interesting from an anthropological perspective and being done with the hair splitting
yeah, okay, that's probably good advice
plus aero otm
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:30 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno, I feel I understand where KP is coming from (even if it annoys me when she says "justin beiber really needs to call me though", perhaps because I'm not sure what the "though" is reacting to in what she's already said). I don't get the impression that any of the haters in the thread are objecting to the subject matter or the stance KP takes vis a vis her "culture" or whatevs. And if she chose not to rap in that matter and be more profesh I don't see how this would change the extent to which she is devoting herself to "specific aspects of teenage girlhood" (since as far as i'm aware neither MF Doom nor Paul Barman comprise specific aspects of teenage girlhood).
Most importantly the backing music is 100% designed for 20 something men. And is the "in" which makes this tumblr/fader worthy. I suspect a lot of haters ITT would like this more (or at least hate it less) if it was actually a stoner Daphne & Celeste rather than a stoner Daphne & Celeste as imagined by CloudDEAD.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:34 (eleven years ago) link
extraneous use of "though" is part of the teenspeak uptalking 'every sentence sounds like a question or refutation even if it isn't' thing iirc
― kitty shayme (some dude), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:38 (eleven years ago) link
Her father, a lawyer, has been supportive, but somewhat protective, naturally. “He doesn't listen to my music at all. He likes Pearl Jam and shit,” she says.
LOL
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:38 (eleven years ago) link
Like, I really don't see what makes this music the province of teenage girlhood as opposed to the music large numbers of teenage girls actually listen to like "Call Me Maybe" and "Boyfriend" and which, not coincidentally, heaps of ILXORS actually love.
Seems to me the much bigger aesthetic judgement factor at work is where you stand or fall on tumblr culture generally.
yeah I meant to say I figured this but it tripped me up each time when listening.
Australians use "but" instead of "though".
― Tim F, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:40 (eleven years ago) link
What is Lamp's opinion.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:42 (eleven years ago) link
all the talk about what "audience" KP's music is "for" is a little labored since a) she hasn't been known outside her immediate social circle yet for what, 5 days? and b) the people that have learned about her in that time are a bunch of fader/complex/blog readers, which i don't know the avg age/gender demographics but i'm guessing it skews a a bit older and more male
― kitty shayme (some dude), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:44 (eleven years ago) link
i think that considering how much has been written abt the facile nature of tumblr it makes perfect sense as a pt of comparison despite the shifting medium
― man down (D-40), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
but w/e, tim is right that my main problem is i find the kind of music shes involved w/ as facile when main attrakionz do it as when she does
― man down (D-40), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:58 (eleven years ago) link
at least it took them longer to get to the NYT though
the manner of speech: tones, inflections, cadences, giggling, uptalk. that's thing one, the throw down, the challenge to adult sensibilities. it establishes who she is and where she's coming from in broad terms, and the ILX-beloved teenpop you're talking about doesn't usually go there.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 01:59 (eleven years ago) link
a lot's been written about the facile nature of pop, but that doesn't make calling something "pop" a particularly resonant criticism.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 02:00 (eleven years ago) link
xps, idk this doesnt strike me as artificial as all that, p sure there's a general swathe of tumblr teengirls that do listen to cloudrap and suchlike that would naturally internalise the aesthetic
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 02:03 (eleven years ago) link
has j-shep commented on this, just out of morbid interest
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 02:07 (eleven years ago) link