R.I.P. 30 ROCK R.I.P COMMUNITY R.I.P. PARKS & REC

(xp)

I think you will find that there's not a lot of Ted love even among fans of HIMYM. He's a pretty universally-acknowledged drip. And I definitely have some reservations about Barney but mostly to the extent that the character's loveable presentation might validate any real-life PUA creepers. But that's a risk you take anytime you present a creep as a sympathetic protagonist in fiction.

I kind of like Ted! Maybe I am also a pretentious saddo douche! His random hookups are supposed to feel empty and joyless. That's the point: he's killing time, trying to fill a void while he's desperately searching for the one (who, until now, was Robin in his heart). With Barney, there definitely was a joy of conquest imo: see all the bizarre challenges he tries out (e.g. convincing a girl that she needs to sleep with him in order to avoid a climate change catastrophe 40 years in the future), his black book and bro code, etc. This has faded though. There was also always an element of desperation to his character too.

(xposts)

Well, yeah, Barney is genuinely evil.

Also, Jason Segal's character is not supposed to be sophisticated and broad-minded! He is a superstitious Midwestern rube.

true, but i think the thing w/barney is that he *isn't partic sympathetic: he's priapist-as-one-note-joke, like the doctor in scrubs who never met a dick joke he couldn't drop into inappropriate conversation.

okay i need to stop ragging himym, this is the thread for gr80 and whiney to high-five as shows that commit the unforgivable sin of being liked by ilx's cornier fux have their future's threatened.

xp segal's quite likeable playing that character, i don't disagree. i think his wife is appallingly irritating though.

I think Lily's a pretty strong character.

Ha xpost I actually like her much more on this than on Buffy.

maybe i'm being harsh on her, have only watched a few himyms tbh, as the show really grates on me, and maybe she charms over time.

(Marshall is a Midwestern rube who also graduated from Columbia's law school, mind you.)

Really, HIMYM is another show like Community that I like a lot but which seems like it would have little-to-no appeal to a casual viewer.

With, y'know, jokes that pay off two years after the fact and whatnot.

i think the only characters i like on himym are robin and marshall. i like segal, smulders, and obv nph. i've kinda turned on allyson hannigan, though it's probably just due to awful writing. still agree w/ this ruling mind you: http://www.theonion.com/video/fcc-okays-nudity-on-tv-if-its-alyson-hannigan,14215/

i still watch HIMYM out of residual loyalty as well, but at the top of its game i would put it up against most sitcoms easily

i feel like there was a turning point w/hannigan where they just kinda turned her into a nagging meme machine, i don't put that on her though

HIMYM doesn't really get enough credit for being consistently playful and inventive with odd running jokes and storytelling devices and meme-y things that lead to offscreen websites etc. which i get, because it's also a laugh track show with some very well trodden young-folx-in-love-in-NYC themes, but still. also don't really understand people's beefs with the character, which seem to rest on the assumption that half the audience is sitting there going "YEAH dude I AM TED"

with the characterS

I should also note that most of my distaste towards Ted is residual distaste towards season 1 Ted, who was (largely intentionally) pathetic. He's eased up a ton since then.

30 rock seems like a much more clear parallel to the simpsons that any of nbc's other thursday night sitcoms, both in its progression as a show and in its joke style

himym is unbearable now, so bad im not really even sure i can tease out exactly what makes it bad -- that being said the first 3-4 seasons i found to be as good as any sitcom out there, and at least as daring as community, just in less obvious ways.

i still don't feel like the simpsons is a good comparison for any of these shows because it's animated, which gives it a lot more leeway in being "unrealistic" and it because it's been on for like 20 years we're forgetting how gradual that change was from slightly edgy to LISA NEEDS BRACES to the hot mess it is now

with HIMYM they go back and forth with ted going from tolerable to horribly annoying, it's just really hard to maintain this sympathy for him that show expects you to. i mean, it tells you bad it is when it's often easier to sympathize with Barney, who is pretty much a sociopath slowly becoming human(?), than Ted, who's a mostly genuine dude but not as openly self-centered as Barney

but yeah, feels like HIMYM swung from being unwatched to moderately successful and back to underrated in recent years, mostly because the last few seasons have dragged like The Office does now. i'm not looking forward to the next TWO seasons (sigh) but i guess i'll watch them anyway

but Marshall and Robin never lost a step IMO

One of my quibbles with HIMYM is its persistent homophobia tbh.

mostly because the last few seasons have dragged like The Office does now - let's not get carried away here

this past season of the office has been like this past colts season where sure you could've seen a dip coming w/o their main guy but WOW

One of my quibbles with HIMYM is its persistent homophobia tbh.

― raw feel vegan (silby), Saturday, May 12, 2012 4:26 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

idgi

if silby is referring to himym creators squeamish and persistent refusal to let smulders and hannigan lez up i totally agree

maybe they'll wait til the last episode like they did with Scrubs

Yeeaaaaahhhh, the 'homophobia' distaste baffles me a bit. Might need you to unpack that one.

Also just generally baffled by people who think HIMYM has gone severely downhill. Its peaks and troughs have been barely perceptible (and I've seen the entire series, like, twice through at this point, so it isn't just that I'm misremembering). Assuming they were ever onboard, I'd have to assume that people's current distaste is more about them outgrowing the show and/or its intentions.

hey, whether the show started wheel-spinning or i just got tired of its "hey remember that heretofore unacknowledged cute name we have for something" quirks, I knew there were plenty of other viewers in the sea when I dumped it, and I don't appreciate the implication that I never really loved it in the first place.

Maybe "homophobia" is overstating the case but HIMYM (like, to be fair, 90% of everything) takes a really stereotyped, easy, lazy approach to queer characters and queer-related humor. Which I find particularly annoying or distasteful when the rest of the show is significantly smarter. Eg. the stereotypical gay folks who acquired Lily's painting for the frame. That's the main instance I remember.

so yes apologies for ruffliing feathers by alleging homophobia. Really it's just depressing laziness.

I'm scanning through, croupier, but I can't for the life of me figure out who or what you're responding to.

Also: yeah, silby, while it's very likely that we'll look back at recent progamming's treatment of homosexuality with the same pained expression that is currently induced by some of the casually insensitive-to-offensive representations of race (and women and rape and, yes, homosexuality) from the '60s-'80s, in this case it's probably more that sensitive portrayals of homosexuality probably aren't at the forefront of a creative team who work for an almost 100% heteronormative show (and, yes, laziness).

I'd also think NPH would veto anything outright insensitive, really.

it's probably more that sensitive portrayals of homosexuality probably aren't at the forefront of a creative team who work for an almost 100% heteronormative show (and, yes, laziness).

yeah, that's true, but that doesn't make it any more watchable. the gay-panic of the episode i mentioned earlier left a bad taste in the mouth.

what are you guys talking about? did nph bash some gays?

I'm scanning through, croupier, but I can't for the life of me figure out who or what you're responding to.

you just sounded like you were defending a dumpee more than a tv show - it's not the show, it's the viewers that changed, assuming they were ever really on board. i think it's actually a pretty valid metaphor, as some people commit to shows for their natural life, and others play the field (which isn't to say they cut and run!)

And it is valid. I'm not condemning anyone for moving on, and if it makes it easier for those who've moved on to go on about how HIMYM started letting itself go or made blatant attempts to attract a newer, younger demographic, well...that's all just part of the healing process.

Barney's brother is a happily successful gay man fwiw.. Larger character than frame buyers at least.

Ohhhh, yeaaaahh. I was trying to remember if there was a recurring LGBT character (besides Lily) and I came up short. Yeah, he's portrayed totally sympathetically. Like a non-damaged, gay Barney (or a black NPH).

Also just generally baffled by people who think HIMYM has gone severely downhill. Its peaks and troughs have been barely perceptible (and I've seen the entire series, like, twice through at this point, so it isn't just that I'm misremembering).

yeah same here, imo show has had a mild inevitable slide in overall quality over the years but not as much as most shows that last 7+ seasons.

I was trying to remember if there was a recurring LGBT character (besides Lily) and I came up short. Yeah, he's portrayed totally sympathetically.

This is what I don't get. I would have thought HIMYM is better than most shows, e.g. Modern Family in terms of its portrayal of queer characters. And yeah, Lily's bisexuality has come up several times.

I'm generally on Deric's and some dude's side wrt the quality of this show but the last few episodes have been making me wonder. I'm not sure how I feel about the whole Barney-Quinn thing. And I think it was actually a good decision for Ted to avoid Robin at this point! I was really disappointed when his recent revelation was that he should in fact reignite a close friendship with someone he had been love with for years and who had just recently rejected him.

(Caveat: I've seen the whole series minus those last few episodes you mention, so I will concede that it's possible that the whole thing inexplicably went down the tubes in the past couple of weeks.)

yeah i think i've missed more episodes lately than usual but the second half of this season has definitely been one of the more pronounced dips in the show's run

I'm just generally not feeling the whole "Barney falls in love...again!" thing this season. Like, if they're gonna do it for real this time and make it stick, fine. But even factoring in character growth, this particular character is only gonna fall head over heels so many times in a row before it becomes completely unbelievable and actively irritating.

The thing with How I Met is that there have been some occasional awesome reveals, like the first robin sparkles thing, and a few others. But usually it doesn't live up to those at all, and especially in the last few seasons I can't think of anything nearly that good. So it's not that the show has gotten considerably worse, just that it doesn't seem to hit the same really great high notes that balanced out the schmaltz. I remember the jumping across the roof thing really getting to me though, actually. That's actually what I enjoy about it -- the life lessons of a certain age and whatever are handled pretty well. Having dreams, giving up on dreams, dealing with getting older and settling down, etc. Sometimes it doesn't do a great job, but every now and then it seems much more forthright and direct about how people handle this stuff than does nearly any other show on TV (which, I'll grant, is an insanely low bar, but still...)

dumb college ted will always kill though.

Pretty much the entirety of my current complaint with this past season is the feeling of wheel spinning and throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks (Marshall and Lily move to Long Island! Or, no, wait, no they don't! Barney's in love with this girl! Or maybe it's this girl! Orrrrr maybe it's this girl!). As if they haven't done as much pre-planning as usual and they're pretty terrible at making it up as they go along. That's just more a complaint about the overarching narrative, though. Overall, the individual episodes are still fine.

the barney/nora thing was good, they prob abandoned that too soon

Well-said, clover. Those elements are a lot of why I like the show, too. However...

But usually it doesn't live up to those at all, and especially in the last few seasons I can't think of anything nearly that good.

Maybe it was just a personal thing (and much different than the kind of surprise that HIMYM usually provides), but the 'Marshall's dad' storyline kinda kicked the legs out from under me. At least in part because they summarized about a year and a half of my life via a three-episode concentrate of Marshall coping with the situation.

the only episode from this season that really struck me as prime himym in every way was at the japanese steakhouse w/ ted telling the story about victoria and the bet between marshall/lily and barney and i can't remember robin's storyline off the top of my head, something w/ work maybe. there were a few other ones that were good but that's the only one i could imagine someone holding in comparison w/ pre-bubble himym. w/ the exception of the one 'date' ted had w/ stella that was 3 minutes long (and that might be just cuz they played a big star song) i think i've dreaded every minute of every big ted relationship since robin and that's alot of airtime. they somehow screwed up the (first?) robin-barney relationship and that should've been a gimme, how the fuck did they make that duller than robin-ted??? marshall-lily they have only occasionally seemed to really have an idea what to do w/ lately and while marshall has had some good storylines i can't really recall the last time lily had a compelling storyline that was her own, and the problem w/ ted is the central dilemma w/ the show and they haven't solved it yet. clover otm about what still works about this show though.