_Avatar_, directed by James Cameron

i quibble w ur strawman tbh

no one was ever going to give a fuck about jake sulee and the noble blue people, and no one was going to go nuts over the story from fern gully and dances with wolves and a billion other movies.

i do agree that the film has lost its pop cultural currency. that's it.

ok great semantics i'm out

Not to mention the $4,000,000 on 800 screens when it was re-released four months after that - that's what fascinating, that there were still people who couldn't get enough of this film that's faded from cultural view since.

― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, May 8, 2012 2:18 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. the fade is fascinating, imo. it doesn't necessarily prove anything specific about the film or its place in the long-term cultural memory, what posterity will say, but it does raise a lot if interesting questions.

People forget there was "mega-schadenfreude" that preceded "Titanic," too. Which of course had its own horrible script, etc., but it at least had characters you cared about. And it was totally all about class, maaaaaan. At a time of great economic prosperity! Subversive, man, subversive.

Is there usually mega-schadenfreude whenever a film is too long in production and known to be way over budget, or does the director have to be sort of widely-resented first?

I think there needs to be some degree of hubris and/or ambition involved, sure. But I'm not sure mega-schadenfreude became a thing until the "Heaven's Gate" to "Ishtar" era, when over-budget Hollywood career/studio-killing disasters became a big punchline.

I will say that, pre-"Titanic," I don't think Cameron was resented, though he was ambitious. Post "Titanic," sure, he made a nice target. But then, if "10-foot tall blue people in 3-D" doesn't bring the advance LOLs ...

Don't forget Liz's Cleopatra though...

While it was in theatres: "It's a lot better than you think." "The 3d is amazing."

As soon as it was out of theatres: "Should I see this through Netflix?" "See what? Oh, probably not."

I think it has the cultural relevance of the halloween blizzard of '91. If you're from the midwest, you know what I mean. If not, don't worry about it.

I guess it has relevance in that it helped to hasten the switch from film to digital, generate a buzz around 3D, and forced a lot of early adapters to spend a lot of money.

otm. 50 years from now it'll be like "the robe"-- "wait, THAT was the move that put digital projection and 3D on the map? and a zillion people went to see it? um, alright."

that's assuming our civilization is still intact in 50 years

it'll become a gnostic gospel in our post-civilization forest society

Titanic used class the way countless romances have, except the template is usually poor girl-rich boy.

"10-foot tall blue people in 3-D" doesn't bring the advance LOLs

/racist

"culturally irrelevant" until hype for avatar 2 starts & ppl pretend forget that the 1st one was shit, paint selves blue

...And the 'poorish' girl-rich boy thing is there, but it's to stomp on snarling Billy Zane.

xp

Billy Zane. I don't know why, but that dude puts me off.

mean

I hate Zane too. Total movie-killer.

You know which movie's incredibly high place on the adjusted B.O. gross list always shocks me? The Sting. Now there's a movie with a seemingly limited cultural cachet.

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

Unless that just represented the perfect storm apex of '70s nostalgia.

the sting rules

^ otm

"culturally irrelevant" until hype for avatar 2 starts & ppl pretend forget that the 1st one was shit, paint selves blue

― johnny crunch, Wednesday, May 9, 2012 7:25 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

have been thinking about that throughout this discussion. cameron's supposedly got two sequels in the pipeline. if they're hits on anything like avatar's scale, then i suspect that all this "culturally irrelevant" talk will seem a little silly in hindsight. "invisible in the moment, from where i'm standing" isn't precisely the same as "irrelevant", after all.

This movie didn't come across anti-war, it came across more pro-one dimensional woodland tribal innocents vs. one dimensional US military racists. Maybe slightly more anti-war than Star Wars in that the idyllic Navi is far more hippie than the rebels. But still, total time showing military technology, lingering on awesome attack helicopters, glorifying explosions, etc. Still felt like it glorified war, only in a context that made it way easy for left wingers to want one side to win.

yeah, i wouldn't call avatar anti-war in general. any antiwar reading is stymied by cameron's obsession with heroic combat and military tech. hell, it's pro-war if anything.

it does take a strong stance against imperialist aggression (lol safe targets) and not-so-subtly critiques america's military "adventurism" in the middle east (esp in just-post-bush-era context).

have been thinking about that throughout this discussion. cameron's supposedly got two sequels in the pipeline. if they're hits on anything like avatar's scale, then i suspect that all this "culturally irrelevant" talk will seem a little silly in hindsight. "invisible in the moment, from where i'm standing" isn't precisely the same as "irrelevant", after all.

― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Wednesday, May 9, 2012 4:35 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

or they could be like the star wars prequels and make a shit-ton of money without anybody really being that enthusiastic about them.

honestly re. the question of whether avatar is anti-imperialism or anti-bush or something just solicits a "who cares?" from me. the stakes are pretty much nil.

loving how the matrix: revolutions is still culturally relevant in 2012, it's a popular cultural touchstone among my friends

People who left the movie wishing they could be a blue person vs. people who left the movie wishing they could ride in one of those high-tech military body suits.

or they could be like the star wars prequels and make a shit-ton of money without anybody really being that enthusiastic about them.

Stressing again, little kids LOVED these. That is, I have never heard a little kid play Luke. They all want to be Anakin, for play, for Halloween, for whatever. Mission accomplished, Lucas.

"Matrix" sequels remain undeniably relevant as examples of "what not to do."

"Matrix" sequels remain undeniably relevant as examples of "what not to do."

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, May 9, 2012 4:57 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, these are some of the worst studio pictures of the last 20 years.

http://io9.com/prog-rock-fantasy-artist-roger-dean-suing-james-cameron-618691718

Awesome

Why now?

Did Dean check his email for the first time in five years?

lol roger dean

― velko, Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:00 PM (3 years ago)

I haven't managed to watch the trailer, but saw a bit on TV. First thoughts were "ugh/lol, furries" and "roger dean/patrick woodroffe should sue" but WTF I imagine on a big screen, in 3D, it would be an entertaining enough spectacle. I agree w/whoever it was who said it looks like a game cutscene.

― \/*|_*/-\*|) (Pashmina), Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:20 AM (3 years ago)

@coryischaki: 10 word Avatar review: Space marines vs Roger Dean painting set to Enya.
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, December 18, 2009 3:53 PM (3 years ago)

yeah i kinda liked the hippy-dippy roger dean look of a lot of it.

― hear shart attack (latebloomer), Monday, December 28, 2009 12:30 AM (3 years ago)

hey i guessed right! wayne barlow did do "creature design" on this.

roger dean needs his credit tho

xp lol

― chartres (goole), Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:08 PM (3 years ago)

LOL Roger Dean.
http://www.english.imjnet.org.il/media/Uploads/Magritte-Rene-The-castle-of.jpg

Anyway, fluorescent corals and anemone were a bigger influence on the look of Avatar than prog rock covers.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/72655_497161960331524_795960090_n.jpg

Laputa looks very small in that painting.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPrtw8INetvWC7_antEz9VYsJBPAGYLSA0pwt36_v8yI6Nnkxt

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23790877

Hollywood director James Cameron says all forms of entertainment will eventually be 3D - because "that's how we see the world."

I hope the sequels are in 4D.

http://media.avclub.com/images/371/371134/16x9/627.jpg?6426

Haha, JiC wants the extra D.

You can never get enough D.

Avatar 4 in 4D sponsored by Sunny D.

(I still love this movie btw)

Is this a movie that anyone regular revisits? Came out in 2009, but feels like it came out 20 years ago. The first of the sequels pops up in 2017. If someone was, say, 10 when the first one came out, they'd be finishing up high school by then. Will they be excited to revisit such a huge part of their childhood? Will they be heading straight to the Avatar park going up at Disney? Will they be buying tickets to the sequel months in advance like some people our/my age do for Star Wars?

More to the point, has anyone, ever, seen someone in an Avatar costume for Halloween?

yearh this film seems to not have left the sort of mark on the culture that you might expect of the highest-grossing film of all time (of course, much of that is because of the 3-D upcharge). but i don't travel in circles with a lot of kids, so maybe i'm not perceiving it.

has anyone, ever, seen someone in an Avatar costume for Halloween?

None of the characters in Avatar are even slightly memorable. The lovingly crafted visual look of the planet and the 3D effects were the real stars of the show. Everything else in this movie was just a an inch or two above mediocrity.

On the other hand, it's prescient as a movie about drone warfare.

The whole enterprise is rife with ironies - the top grossing film of all time is more or less forgotten, but at the same time belatedly serving as anchor for two, maybe three more huge sequels that no one seemed to be asking for, plus a whole section of a Disney amusement park, but specifically the park (Animal Kingdom) dedicated to real things, not fanciful Yes covers come to life.

I dunno. Maybe the movies will pull a reverse Matrix and get better as they go along. I do find it hard to believe that spectacle alone will propel the sequels. Lack of compelling/memorable characters/story in the original makes for shakey tent-pole support.

http://www.latimes.com/travel/themeparks/la-trb-avatar-land-disney-animal-kingdom-20150707-story.html

James Cameron, who directed, wrote and produced the original science fiction epic, promises Avatar Land will let visitors "live, eat, breathe and smell Pandora."

Only two comments, telling:

Deborah Musselman
I loved Avatar. This new attraction just might get me to Florida.

4 months ago 

raidermatt
Couldn't be less interested. Avatar is a bad movie. Much of its popularity was due to special effects and it being the first modern movie to successfully implement 3D. Other than that, it's awful. Nobody cares about it anymore.

4 months ago