no? you said no one is claiming that avatar is still culturally relevant, i quoted contenderizer at least being 'agnostic' about my assertion that it isn't; i'm not sure why he would post that other than to imply that it might still be relevant, which... it isn't.
Your assertion, if I've traced it back right, is that the film had no cultural currency, that it was garbage from the start, that no-one connected to it. This seems like the same argument as goole/Adam earlier, that people only went to it for the hype. If I've got you/contenderiser wrong sorry about that, but I don't think he's arguing what you think he is.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:07 (eleven years ago) link
i quibble with the unsupported blanket assertion that the film never meant anything to anyone.
i quibble w ur strawman tbh
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
y'all
"the general mainstream" is not synonymous with "everyone, ever"
So we're looking at the world's biggest cult hit?
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
it's the opposite of a cult hit! everybody saw it but nobody cared about it much after a while.
― goole, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^^^^^^^^
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
Right, but still we get back to $1,000,000 gross on week 17.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
to be fair that's about $28 without 3D
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
Not to mention the $4,000,000 on 800 screens when it was re-released four months after that - that's what fascinating, that there were still people who couldn't get enough of this film that's faded from cultural view since.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
I think the porn industry usually has the answers here
― frogbs, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
no one was ever going to give a fuck about jake sulee and the noble blue people, and no one was going to go nuts over the story from fern gully and dances with wolves and a billion other movies.
i do agree that the film has lost its pop cultural currency. that's it.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
ok great semantics i'm out
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:24 (eleven years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, May 8, 2012 2:18 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm. the fade is fascinating, imo. it doesn't necessarily prove anything specific about the film or its place in the long-term cultural memory, what posterity will say, but it does raise a lot if interesting questions.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
People forget there was "mega-schadenfreude" that preceded "Titanic," too. Which of course had its own horrible script, etc., but it at least had characters you cared about. And it was totally all about class, maaaaaan. At a time of great economic prosperity! Subversive, man, subversive.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
Is there usually mega-schadenfreude whenever a film is too long in production and known to be way over budget, or does the director have to be sort of widely-resented first?
― Hierophantiasis (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 21:58 (eleven years ago) link
I think there needs to be some degree of hubris and/or ambition involved, sure. But I'm not sure mega-schadenfreude became a thing until the "Heaven's Gate" to "Ishtar" era, when over-budget Hollywood career/studio-killing disasters became a big punchline.
I will say that, pre-"Titanic," I don't think Cameron was resented, though he was ambitious. Post "Titanic," sure, he made a nice target. But then, if "10-foot tall blue people in 3-D" doesn't bring the advance LOLs ...
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
Don't forget Liz's Cleopatra though...
― Hierophantiasis (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
While it was in theatres: "It's a lot better than you think." "The 3d is amazing."
As soon as it was out of theatres: "Should I see this through Netflix?" "See what? Oh, probably not."
I think it has the cultural relevance of the halloween blizzard of '91. If you're from the midwest, you know what I mean. If not, don't worry about it.
I guess it has relevance in that it helped to hasten the switch from film to digital, generate a buzz around 3D, and forced a lot of early adapters to spend a lot of money.
― a la bouquet marmoset (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 13:54 (eleven years ago) link
otm. 50 years from now it'll be like "the robe"-- "wait, THAT was the move that put digital projection and 3D on the map? and a zillion people went to see it? um, alright."
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:08 (eleven years ago) link
that's assuming our civilization is still intact in 50 years
it'll become a gnostic gospel in our post-civilization forest society
― et tu, twinkletoes? (remy bean), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:13 (eleven years ago) link
Titanic used class the way countless romances have, except the template is usually poor girl-rich boy.
"10-foot tall blue people in 3-D" doesn't bring the advance LOLs
/racist
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:24 (eleven years ago) link
"culturally irrelevant" until hype for avatar 2 starts & ppl pretend forget that the 1st one was shit, paint selves blue
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:25 (eleven years ago) link
...And the 'poorish' girl-rich boy thing is there, but it's to stomp on snarling Billy Zane.
xp
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:26 (eleven years ago) link
Billy Zane. I don't know why, but that dude puts me off.
― He's sick of the Swiss. He don't like em. (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
mean
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
I hate Zane too. Total movie-killer.
― Hierophantiasis (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
You know which movie's incredibly high place on the adjusted B.O. gross list always shocks me? The Sting. Now there's a movie with a seemingly limited cultural cachet.
http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm
― jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
Unless that just represented the perfect storm apex of '70s nostalgia.
the sting rules
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
^ otm
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, May 9, 2012 7:25 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
have been thinking about that throughout this discussion. cameron's supposedly got two sequels in the pipeline. if they're hits on anything like avatar's scale, then i suspect that all this "culturally irrelevant" talk will seem a little silly in hindsight. "invisible in the moment, from where i'm standing" isn't precisely the same as "irrelevant", after all.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
This movie didn't come across anti-war, it came across more pro-one dimensional woodland tribal innocents vs. one dimensional US military racists. Maybe slightly more anti-war than Star Wars in that the idyllic Navi is far more hippie than the rebels. But still, total time showing military technology, lingering on awesome attack helicopters, glorifying explosions, etc. Still felt like it glorified war, only in a context that made it way easy for left wingers to want one side to win.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:41 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i wouldn't call avatar anti-war in general. any antiwar reading is stymied by cameron's obsession with heroic combat and military tech. hell, it's pro-war if anything.
it does take a strong stance against imperialist aggression (lol safe targets) and not-so-subtly critiques america's military "adventurism" in the middle east (esp in just-post-bush-era context).
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:50 (eleven years ago) link
have been thinking about that throughout this discussion. cameron's supposedly got two sequels in the pipeline. if they're hits on anything like avatar's scale, then i suspect that all this "culturally irrelevant" talk will seem a little silly in hindsight. "invisible in the moment, from where i'm standing" isn't precisely the same as "irrelevant", after all.― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Wednesday, May 9, 2012 4:35 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Wednesday, May 9, 2012 4:35 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
or they could be like the star wars prequels and make a shit-ton of money without anybody really being that enthusiastic about them.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:54 (eleven years ago) link
honestly re. the question of whether avatar is anti-imperialism or anti-bush or something just solicits a "who cares?" from me. the stakes are pretty much nil.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:55 (eleven years ago) link
loving how the matrix: revolutions is still culturally relevant in 2012, it's a popular cultural touchstone among my friends
― dayo, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
People who left the movie wishing they could be a blue person vs. people who left the movie wishing they could ride in one of those high-tech military body suits.
Stressing again, little kids LOVED these. That is, I have never heard a little kid play Luke. They all want to be Anakin, for play, for Halloween, for whatever. Mission accomplished, Lucas.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:56 (eleven years ago) link
"Matrix" sequels remain undeniably relevant as examples of "what not to do."
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 21:57 (eleven years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, May 9, 2012 4:57 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, these are some of the worst studio pictures of the last 20 years.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 22:01 (eleven years ago) link
http://io9.com/prog-rock-fantasy-artist-roger-dean-suing-james-cameron-618691718
― Ward Fowler, Sunday, 30 June 2013 08:19 (ten years ago) link
Awesome
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 30 June 2013 14:34 (ten years ago) link
Why now?
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 30 June 2013 14:48 (ten years ago) link
Did Dean check his email for the first time in five years?
lol roger dean― velko, Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:00 PM (3 years ago) I haven't managed to watch the trailer, but saw a bit on TV. First thoughts were "ugh/lol, furries" and "roger dean/patrick woodroffe should sue" but WTF I imagine on a big screen, in 3D, it would be an entertaining enough spectacle. I agree w/whoever it was who said it looks like a game cutscene.― \/*|_*/-\*|) (Pashmina), Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:20 AM (3 years ago) @coryischaki: 10 word Avatar review: Space marines vs Roger Dean painting set to Enya.― Elvis Telecom, Friday, December 18, 2009 3:53 PM (3 years ago)yeah i kinda liked the hippy-dippy roger dean look of a lot of it.― hear shart attack (latebloomer), Monday, December 28, 2009 12:30 AM (3 years ago)hey i guessed right! wayne barlow did do "creature design" on this.roger dean needs his credit thoxp lol― chartres (goole), Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:08 PM (3 years ago)
― velko, Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:00 PM (3 years ago)
I haven't managed to watch the trailer, but saw a bit on TV. First thoughts were "ugh/lol, furries" and "roger dean/patrick woodroffe should sue" but WTF I imagine on a big screen, in 3D, it would be an entertaining enough spectacle. I agree w/whoever it was who said it looks like a game cutscene.
― \/*|_*/-\*|) (Pashmina), Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:20 AM (3 years ago)
@coryischaki: 10 word Avatar review: Space marines vs Roger Dean painting set to Enya.― Elvis Telecom, Friday, December 18, 2009 3:53 PM (3 years ago)
yeah i kinda liked the hippy-dippy roger dean look of a lot of it.
― hear shart attack (latebloomer), Monday, December 28, 2009 12:30 AM (3 years ago)
hey i guessed right! wayne barlow did do "creature design" on this.
roger dean needs his credit tho
xp lol
― chartres (goole), Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:08 PM (3 years ago)
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 30 June 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
LOL Roger Dean.http://www.english.imjnet.org.il/media/Uploads/Magritte-Rene-The-castle-of.jpg
Anyway, fluorescent corals and anemone were a bigger influence on the look of Avatar than prog rock covers.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/72655_497161960331524_795960090_n.jpg
― Me So Hormetic (Sanpaku), Sunday, 30 June 2013 16:59 (ten years ago) link
Laputa looks very small in that painting.
― Aimless, Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:45 (ten years ago) link
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPrtw8INetvWC7_antEz9VYsJBPAGYLSA0pwt36_v8yI6Nnkxt
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 30 June 2013 21:08 (ten years ago) link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23790877
Hollywood director James Cameron says all forms of entertainment will eventually be 3D - because "that's how we see the world."
― YOU FOOLS PAY OVER $2.50 for a comic book (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 22 August 2013 14:58 (ten years ago) link
I hope the sequels are in 4D.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 22 August 2013 15:10 (ten years ago) link