HBO adaptation of Game of Thrones - will this be just for nerds? (NO SPOILERS PLEASE)

I think some people's brains can't cope with the idea that a story portraying an enormously sexist world and enormously sexist characters is not necessarily enormously sexist itself.

^^^ this.

wouldnt it be fair to say though that "strong, independent females" are equally predictable (and perhaps equally trivial) in this kinda nerd stuff? like there's always always warrior queens and powerful witches and one plucky ladywarrior alongside the wenches

ie putting women on an ineffable pedestal often goes hand in hand with general misgoyny

This article does a good job of addressing the series's treatment of female characters (amongst a lot of other things).
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2012/05/07/120507crte_television_nussbaum

I think some people's brains can't cope with the idea that a story portraying an enormously sexist world and enormously sexist characters is not necessarily enormously sexist itself.

this isn't strictly accurate; rather, it's more that it isn't intended to be an endorsement of enormous sexism (whether it succeeds in its criticism is really up to the viewer reaction)

The books are more successful at dealing with the topic of misogyny than the tv show, which trips itself up by adding in unnecessary sex scenes that only seem to be included to bump up ratings and get us though slow exposition.

A friend told me that every sex scene in the show was in the book. He's lying or remembering incorrectly, right?

right

A couple examples from s1 not in the books, that I could have done without:

Viserys in tub with Doreah talking dragons
Littlefinger evaluating Ros' prostitute skills

i feel like all the sex is vital and nessisary

HBO sex is a bit embarrassing and sad, like watching your dad make a dirty joke that falls flat.

I liked Viserys in the tub, but I feel a bit deviant admitting that. He was a psuedo albino cutie.

^ yeah, this is otm. the leering depiction of female nudity definitely mars any feminist cred the show might otherwise muster, though i think people make too much of it sometimes, in a way that prevents them from seeing that there's a lot of good in there with the HBO cheesecake.

while it may be partially true, as r|t|c says, that "'strong, independent females' are equally predictable (and perhaps equally trivial) in this kinda nerd stuff", i don't think that this predictability is a fault, and it certainly isn't trivial. xena, warrior princess was initially criticized as fanboy cheesecake, but wound up meaning a lot more to lesbians than it ever did to straight guys. fantasy and science-fiction have long been popular among female readers, and they've attracted a number of strongly feminist authors. the worlds that these genres create are, of course, unreal, but they allow the exercise of constructive, transformative imagination. in fantasy and science-fiction, the possibilities available are not constrained by conventional social or even physical boundaries, something that a number of liberation-minded thinkers (feminist, queer, etc) have remarked upon.

The books are more successful at dealing with the topic of misogyny than the tv show, which trips itself up by adding in unnecessary sex scenes that only seem to be included to bump up ratings and get us though slow exposition.

― Moodles, Thursday, May 3, 2012 6:59 AM (25 minutes ago)

^ the "this" i was responding to

HBO sex is a bit embarrassing and sad, like watching your dad make a dirty joke that falls flat.

― fka snush (remy bean), Thursday, May 3, 2012 10:22 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

*rolls eyes deeply deeply back into skull*

Remy very otm

lol

Compared to what other sex on TV?

the sex in game of thrones works really well because its totally sensationalistic and silly just like the rest of the show

i cant really comment on all the sex on hbo ever, would require some research, ill leave it to noted hbo sex experts remy bean and forksclovetofu

noted hobo sexperts

sometimes i feel bad for the street interviews of the ppl on Real Sex, i bet they didn't think that clip of them talking about going down on their wife in 1992 was gonna be replayed all the time for the next 20 years

someday legume will have grownup sex with a real lady and it'll all be clear to him

i eagerly await that day on which the full genius of yr incisive critique into the dragons and swords nerd tv show will be revealed

hey asshole i thought we weren't talking, fall back

people really exaggerate how much HBO is "sexing the show up" IMO, there's plenty of awkwardly written weird sex stuff in the books

the whole Theon molesting his sister thing was just as weird and jarring in the book

hey asshole i thought we weren't talking, fall back

― The world is your urinal. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, May 3, 2012 1:30 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

cool terminology forks B-)

i mean my thought is that maybe .25% of the books is devoted to sexy times, whereas significantly more of the TV show is devoted to oddly graphic (but for the most part unhot) scenes of doin' it while delivering unrelated dialogue. It's not galling, just feels a little pandering. Necessarily there'll be more durrty business on TV b/c of the elision of heraldry and endless verses of The Bear and the Maiden Fair. I'm beefing with the way it's done, not with its inclusion.

the entire show is a little pandering!

as i imagine are the books

you have a really weird attitude to this show lag∞n. Like you're ashamed of watching it or something

http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/103/e/AAAAAq2xrboAAAAAAQPmPA.jpg?v=1211229462000

^ little panda ring

you have a really weird attitude to this show lag∞n. Like you're ashamed of watching it or something

― Number None, Thursday, May 3, 2012 1:39 PM (46 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

its ott and fun and silly, im not ashamed to enjoy that... R U !!!

The thing is, I'm ok with awkward weird sex scenes from the book being in the show, but I don't enjoy the addition of even more awkward expository dialogues given in the context of unsexy sex scenes that weren't in the original book. The gross stuff that happens in the book would totally be enough for this show.

tofu forks in ice cr∞m beef

Not at all bro, you just seem to be at pains to emphasise how "silly" it is. Also reading all those spoilers, that was weird too.

maybe you take this show... too srs ??

that's not it at all

dammit this show is kind of silly. now i feel really self-conscious about wearing cloth of gold pantaloons to the office.

thought this last episode was grrrreat (tony the tiger voice), best one yet possibly. was feeling really down on this season before, really hating all the non-book scenes and feeling like they were giving short shrift to important moments.

I don't enjoy the addition of even more awkward expository dialogues given in the context of unsexy sex scenes that weren't in the original book. The gross stuff that happens in the book would totally be enough for this show.

― Moodles, Thursday, May 3, 2012 12:41 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed, my past comment was just to reflect that some ppl i know irl seem to think the book was some kinda chaste, trad lord of the rings thing and that all the sex is "HBO being HBO"....martin's a perv

increasingly so! (although probably he just got edited down in ealrier books).

imho the silly fun lurid quality is a central and knowingly employed aspect of the show, which is why its so much better than like some po faced lord of the rings bullshit

basically otm. there is after all a dwarf who is actually just a little fella.

basically otm. there is after all a dwarf who is actually just a little fella.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, May 3, 2012 12:54 PM (5 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

huh?

some ppl i know irl seem to think the book was some kinda chaste, trad lord of the rings thing

This is odd, because when the books came out originally they were totally sold as an "adult" take on fantasy i.e. there was violence, swearing, nudity etc. And the books do have all those things but HBO have really been piling it on, seemingly for no good reason.

This is odd, because when the books came out originally they were totally sold as an "adult" take on fantasy

yeah but it's reaching ppl now who have basically one (or two give or take narnia) reference for "fantasy"

its really well crafted trashy entertainment, there are not a lot of other qualities operating particularly, nor by the light of griffinhall is there any need to be