Mad Men on AMC • Fifth Season Thread

although the peggy not-being-proposed-to scene felt a bit forced the following scene with peggy and joan was very touching.

Kinda nice to see Mona again.

What about Pete! I had just commented on how missing he was in this episode when he shows up and has that brilliant exchange with Emile. Harry also barely made the cut, but got to show up and be an ass for 20 seconds.

lol forgot about Harry finishing the story

pete's scene was great and unusually self-aware

has that brilliant exchange with Emile.

i wasn't convinced. pete just wouldn't have the balls to do this.

roger being so fun with sally and then destroying her innocence was v heartbreaking

he would if the person was of no consequence to him professionally xpost

i'm watching the eames documentary and this pic made me flash back to peggy on the honda scooter:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YCiU623tb04/SoIhqiV-HgI/AAAAAAAABis/XvRKPGxT5ao/s400/Charels+Ray+Eames+on+motorcycle.jpg

also i wonder how much Sally is going to see this season by looking for a bathroom and opening the wrong door

Tried watching the pitch.
Fuck all these people

Ha they're trying to get mac lethal for a subway breakfast commercial!

One of the best episode ending lines.

I laughed at the Pete greeting Sally moment at the awards dinner - he does like them young, but that young?

So I guess Megan is gonna quit her job at some point

Megan's dad is a great character

What about Pete! I had just commented on how missing he was in this episode when he shows up and has that brilliant exchange with Emile.

yeah, loved this. good rebuttal to my earlier kvetching about how pete seems at though he would suck at his job. demonstrated that he's a gifted flatterer.

roger being so fun with sally and then destroying her innocence was v heartbreaking

― call all destroyer, Monday, April 30, 2012 7:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

One of the best episode ending lines.

― mh, Monday, April 30, 2012 8:29 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, the both of you

i think your judgment is clouded by your general loathing of him

undoubtedly true

this was a great episode, but peggy is making less and less sense to me as a character this season

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, April 30, 2012 6:55 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think she makes sense as a character. she's smart & ambitious, has a strong sense of her value as a thinker and doer, but is still rather insecure about her looks and place in the world. though she refuses to be bound by expectations, she can't help but see herself as "no prize" in relation to the likes of joan and megan.

her response to Megan at the office celebration of the Heinz success was odd, and i questioned her sincerity.

That was just a weird exchange from both ends.

I can see her wanting to feel that way, and if she truly does, then she's way more saintly than anyone else on the show.

I think she was sincere. I think the easy/lazy idea is that she's jealous of Megan, that Megan's lucky because she's getting by due to Don, that she'll get ahead before her etc etc. But I think the writers give Peggy more credit than that. She's too smart. She sees how hard Megan works and how Megan seeks her advice and approval, and she acknowledges that the work is good, or at least good enough. So I think she's sincere in being happy for her. If there is any threat of being replaced, by Megan or by Ginsburg, I don't think she senses it. She's too caught up in her own work and Abe.

it was an odd scene. i didn't doubt peggy's sincerity, but there was something awkward about her declaration of selfless solidarity, and i didn't get why megan seemed so troubled by her moment of triumph.

or maybe, esp. with the recent Abe interactions, she's feeling that she needs to have a life outside of the office and that world? The ending line, "this is as good at this job gets" was totally credible.

I think Megan seemed troubled because having a great idea about how to sell beans was ultimately not really that satisfying and it left her questioning whether she actually wants a career in advertising

xp

The ending line, "this is as good at this job gets" was totally credible.

yeah, that was peggy's best moment in this episode

I mean, the exchange between Megan and her father fills in a lot of gaps about Megan's personality, she was obviously raised to be ambitious. And if this is "as good as it gets", then maybe she wants something more.

xp to myself

I think Megan seemed troubled because having a great idea about how to sell beans was ultimately not really that satisfying and it left her questioning whether she actually wants a career in advertising

good point! sets up her father scolding her for giving up her own dreams to fit in with don's life. annoyed at myself for not catching that.

now that she is being written as more than just Don's manic pixie dream girl, I'm liking Megan a lot more.

maybe megan decides to quit advertising and become an actress, and then she's cast as the wife of the lead character in a television drama about the world of advertising.

the beans pitch again raised a question that's come up several times itt: are SCDP really all that great at what they do? cuz while i could definitely see that ad appearing on TV, it didn't exactly blow me away with its brilliance.

the client liked it, that's pretty much what mattered.

I suspend my disbelief for that kind of stuff because you're never gonna have a tv show come up with all these brilliant advertising ideas. Basically if they say it's brilliant on the show I just assume it is for the purposes of the story.

the beans pitch again raised a question that's come up several times itt: are SCDP really all that great at what they do? cuz while i could definitely see that ad appearing on TV, it didn't exactly blow me away with its brilliance.

― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, May 1, 2012 12:11 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

but this is ALWAYS the problem when fiction tries to represent the creative process: the supposed "great novel" or "great symphony" the leader character is preparing is rarely any good. you have to suspend disbelief.

yeah, i know. mad men doesn't make a great case for SCDP as a brilliant, pioneering ad powerhouse, imo. not a criticism of the show.

I think it's been made clear many times that they are not on the cutting edge. They are competent and occasionally have a flash of genius/inspiration, and people like Ginsburg think they have potential (or he was just flattering them), but they're not DDB.

That's why all the talk above about whether Peggy is good seems weird to me. She's good enough for that job. Don is good enough for the job. They're both competent and occasionally really good. But if they were really great they'd be more successful. And I don't think the show has been about the quality of the work since like Season 1.

xpost

the easy way to do it would be to just straight rip off the most brilliant advertising ideas of yesteryear. perhaps its to their credit that they don't do this, but otoh, a little education in the history of the creative side of the business might be a nice fringe benefit.

I think it's been made clear many times that they are not on the cutting edge. They are competent and occasionally have a flash of genius/inspiration, and people like Ginsburg think they have potential (or he was just flattering them), but they're not DDB.

i dunno. even recently it's been made clear that don's name carries weight in the ad world and that he has a mystique. although ginsburg was no doubt sucking up, he also seemed to be drawn to SCDP on the basis on don's name -- and he seemed carry a kind of awe for don, which--since ginsburg was coming from outside the ad world--means that don draper has to be a well-known guy by advertising standards.

in general i wish the show would shift the balance a bit from the soap-opera bits to the actual business of running an ad agency. i always liked that stuff and it's one of the things that made the show unique. too many TV shows that take place in a certain occupational milieu basically abandon their attention to that milieu after a shot while.

Even if Don has been a genius in the past, it's clearly a plot point of this season that he's coasting.

I agree, I mean, I don't want THE PITCH, but it's been a season or two since any major drama revolved around advertising.

Even if Don has been a genius in the past, it's clearly a plot point of this season that he's coasting.

adding weight to a point that's been made previously, he's drifting into roger's role, recognizer more than generator of brilliance

the easy way to do it would be to just straight rip off the most brilliant advertising ideas of yesteryear

"it's toasted"

(yes, i know)

yeah, i was kinda under the impression she wasn't so happy in her relationship. then she got all excited for his proposal? message: all girls want to be married at heart, even peggy?

― Mordy, Monday, April 30, 2012 8:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know this is way upthread, but if theres one thing i cant stand its that this complex, interesting, multi-dimensional character is being expected to stand in for all women, & its what really grates abt the political arguments against this

anyway yeah loved this ep

and my first surreal conversion moment was definitely when january jones goes out in the back yard & shoots at the pigeons in s1

don's name carries weight in the ad world and that he has a mystique

Hard to say how much of this is to do with his talent, and how much with his gargantuan charisma.

I wonder if Roger was obliged to, er, return Marie's favour?

i know this is way upthread, but if theres one thing i cant stand its that this complex, interesting, multi-dimensional character is being expected to stand in for all women, & its what really grates abt the political arguments against this

srsly the way some of you come running to bat for this show the moment someone says something even half-critical about it makes community fanboys look reasonable