― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 8 August 2003 02:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 8 August 2003 02:59 (twenty years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 8 August 2003 03:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 8 August 2003 03:07 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 8 August 2003 14:11 (twenty years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 8 August 2003 14:18 (twenty years ago) link
I know which one is the sad picture...I used to go up there like at least once a week to just stare at everything. Actually, two pix were taken from there: the view of the bridges and the one straight down on the city.
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 8 August 2003 14:20 (twenty years ago) link
;)
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 8 August 2003 14:21 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 8 August 2003 14:58 (twenty years ago) link
Yes. I have no idea what. Further study is required.
it's pretty much our platonic ideal of 'the city;' anywhere else is just 'a city.'
Ding ding ding! (though see also London)
I'll say this, though. I certainly wish fuckin' less people would move here and leave the city for those snobby shits like myself who were actually born here, goddammit!
Nothing good ever came of an enterprise of entirely NY-born humans.
Ned:To be fair, I've found perfect serenity more than once in the middle of Manhattan, and not in Central Park even.
http://www.demotelco.com/fb/photo/resources/217114166216105612301474000001/ned.jpg?tw=450&th=450
OK let's move to Alabama immediately.
Sellout.
--
People move to NYC because they imagine that it has a constant stream of the new and interesting. This is true, because the people that come to see it, bring it.
Obviously, the chips on the shoulders of NYCers born and bred are nothing compared to those of people who moved there.
Sinatra got it slightly wrong: Once you make yourself there, you can take yourself anywhere. For people that are still cookie dough, it's the hottest oven. Obviously this is mass delusion, but so is the United States of America.
(I had to rewrite this, as the first time I was using 'here' instead of 'there').
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 8 August 2003 15:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 8 August 2003 15:01 (twenty years ago) link
Also, milo is OTM here: It's where you dream of moving when you're outside the cultural norm of your area (especially as a teenager). Nightlife, record stores, shopping, interesting people, adventure, etc. Basically a "get the fuck up and out" ideal.
And the reality of both is far less exciting than the fantasy.
― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 8 August 2003 15:02 (twenty years ago) link
(I'm a little sleepy, so this will be vague - I did miss NA's intention on this thread a bit, but I think he's missing the answer to his question that's implicated in NYC'ers answers to what they imagine the question to be. certainly there are people who move here for a fantasy, and find it or not, and there will be disillusionment for those who don't. but in fact, the reality for many people is better than the fantasy, and perhaps there are people who move here who have realistic, instead of fantastic, notions of what the city is like. therefore for many, whether native or non, NYC isn't overrated because they never rated it on to anything but its own terms. the "fantasy" in fact is perhaps largely invented by people *outside* of New York. people who live here may have trouble explaining it to non-NYCers because they don't have the same reference points. like, explain to me why Richmond is great (though I gather that's not necessarily the sentiment) - I'm not necessarily going to understand very well (though I'm willing to believe it). the backlash against NYC may just have to do with the number and volume of its flacks. then again, NA may be right about why people move here and we're ignoring his question, though it may be self-explanatory. or does the question have less to do with NYC than why *other* cities don't have the same allure? how many people really choose between cities to live in? and are they choosing between the cities themselves or the larger regions that they are found in (i.e. Coast v. Center, East v. West, South v. Middle v. North)?)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 8 August 2003 15:24 (twenty years ago) link
The phrasing of that raises my hackles, though I see your larger point. Might it be more accurate to say that other places have their own allure than simply investing NYC with something untouchable and unique?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 8 August 2003 15:26 (twenty years ago) link
I really hate discussing locale with you, though. No offense or anything but like I said you just seem to come in to these threads to play devil's advocate against whatever is being agreed to about the goodness of an area.
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 8 August 2003 15:34 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 8 August 2003 15:41 (twenty years ago) link
However, I do think NYC has something unique (as a matter of reality, not fantasy) that is particularly alluring to people who wish to live in a large city and that perhaps can't be found or is not imagined to be found anywhere else (except maybe London, Hong Kong, etc.). It might not be alluring to people who don't wish to live in a large city, or to people who wish to live in a large metropolitan area without a dense, residential, monumental core and active sidewalk culture.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 8 August 2003 15:45 (twenty years ago) link
DID YOU KNOW that the horse-drawn hansom cabs have rate signs like in taxicabs: " $34.00 for the first 1/2 hour or part thereof, $11.00 for each additional 1/4 hour"? I wonder how these rates stack up against those from Henry James' or Wharton's day.
― felicity (felicity), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:04 (twenty years ago) link
If suburban mall culture = teen pop, do tourists gravitate towards Times Square because it's the least guitarbandlike place in NYC?
― The Four Singing Beatles (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:06 (twenty years ago) link
― felicity (felicity), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:11 (twenty years ago) link
NA this totally depends on what you mean by 'large'. I've felt a similar level of excitement and potential in LA and SF as I did in NY (when visiting; I've never lived in any of these). Both of these cities also have their own strong moving-to mythologies. The only other US cities that can compare to NY in size are Chicago and maybe sorta Boston. If by large you mean Pittsburgh, Seattle or Denver, then yes, NY has a much greater selection of the unique and special. If you're a person who's interested in urbanity, and all the diversity and cultural stuff that comes with it, you don't really want to move to Seattle or Portland, despite the fact that they're officially cities (trust me).
― chester (synkro), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:20 (twenty years ago) link
New York has no gondolas
but it does!
http://www.rioc.com/tram.gif
xp: chester - what do you mean by large? surely not geography. the LA metro area has more people than does the NY, I think, and also greater density which is bizarre. maybe they count the bodies of water in NY? however, I'm NYC-born and bred and adore Seattle, though admittedly not for its 'urbanity'.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:36 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:37 (twenty years ago) link
― lawrence kansas (lawrence kansas), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:39 (twenty years ago) link
― chester (synkro), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:44 (twenty years ago) link
I can tell you. I just received a book in the mail from my gradmaother, who was cleaning out a bunch of books and found "The Real New York," a personal guide on shops and ting, written by a lady reporter in 1933. By 1933 there were only 6 hansom cabs left in the city and they congregated exactly where they congregate now, across from the Plaza Hotel at the corner of 59th and 5th Ave. The price was $3 (length of ride unspecified), which this reporter says had been the going rate for at least 30 years, despite the fact the stable fees had increased five-fold. This book is so great, she says you can go to any basement-floor apartment on 47th St west of sixth ave, ring the buzzer, and when the tiny window bangs open and a pair of beady eyes present themselves you say casually that you were "there last night with Johnny Walker." She says this code works everywhere, even downtown. I'm gonna have to try that sometime.
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 8 August 2003 16:58 (twenty years ago) link
Philadelphia is much, much bigger than Boston. So is Phoenix.
See how mythologies work?
That book sounds great, Tracer!
― felicity (felicity), Friday, 8 August 2003 17:01 (twenty years ago) link
If you can't deal/think it's overrated/like your city so much better, just don't come. We won't miss you and frankly rents are too high already. 'nuff said.
― Octothorpe (Octothorpe), Friday, 8 August 2003 17:18 (twenty years ago) link
― chester (synkro), Friday, 8 August 2003 17:20 (twenty years ago) link
― phil-two (phil-two), Friday, 8 August 2003 17:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Sarah McLusky (coco), Friday, 8 August 2003 17:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 8 August 2003 17:31 (twenty years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 8 August 2003 17:44 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 8 August 2003 17:49 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 8 August 2003 17:50 (twenty years ago) link
again
(xpost)
― donut bitch (donut), Friday, 8 August 2003 17:51 (twenty years ago) link
Also, in terms of multiculturalism, Toronto's got everyone beat. 56 different ethnic groups speaking 80 different languages--the most diverse city in the world. (I used to work for Ontario tourism)
― cybele (cybele), Friday, 8 August 2003 18:16 (twenty years ago) link
(NOTE: The preceeding might be a lie.)
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 8 August 2003 18:18 (twenty years ago) link
― felicity (felicity), Friday, 8 August 2003 18:37 (twenty years ago) link
― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 8 August 2003 18:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 8 August 2003 18:45 (twenty years ago) link
― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 8 August 2003 18:48 (twenty years ago) link
Taking Sides: West Nile v. SARS
― TMFTML (TMFTML), Friday, 8 August 2003 18:49 (twenty years ago) link
I reserve the right to spend a lot of time worrying about NA's friends
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 8 August 2003 18:57 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 8 August 2003 18:59 (twenty years ago) link
― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 8 August 2003 19:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 8 August 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 8 August 2003 19:06 (twenty years ago) link