Hard to categorize rock/jazz/'experimental' but not really fusion crossover records by jazz dudes

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am i the only chris hinze fan out there? guess its just fusion. i dig his records. they aren't straight fusion records.


scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:28 (five years ago) Permalink

didn't you write on ILX that your only memory of the 60s was being scared by Maynard? At a family outing, maybe (somebody responded that Maynard was the Yngwie Malmsteen of jazz, sounds right). Lotta stuff on here I need to check. That xpost live Free Spirts set is pretty funny, in a good way. Those guys were so young, just naturally (with a little help from ingested friends) opening their radioheadsz to all the 60s had to offer, and fltering it though extensive self-education in progress. Steve Marcus, a teenager at the time, provdies liner notes, setting the scene at The Scene, one of the earliest groovy rock-the-whatever-clubs. They had a regular gig, and would get trippin' for Happy Hour, chasing a Motown bass line around the room like dreaming beagles. It's recorded on a mic as high as the musos, flimsy and dialing waaay back through the twilight, dig it when you wanna. Also some I guess you'd say acid folk ballads (not sung by Coryell, fortunately). Oh yeah, he and Moses and Steve Swallow were also in Gary Burton Quartet, making more focused, less speedy, but still kinds shrmoomy and barefoot jazz-meets-rock-and-sometimes-country-and-sometimes-folk in the 60s. And Burton's Tennessee Firebird is worth checking out, seems like (I've only found about half the tracks) Coryell's Barefoot Boy, The Real Great Escape, and stuff w his band Eleventh House is erratic but rowdy and fun, often enough (for thrift store prices) He's the sometimes uncredited guitarist on Steve Marcus's The Lord's Prayer and others, course he did get his name on Count's Rock Band, and I think they even did a reunion album, but don't know if that's supposed to be good.

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:34 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, and Herbie Mann's early 60s "Comin' Home Baby" didn't even need no guests, but otherwise I dig him w Coryell and Sharrock and downhome studio aces on Memphis Underground, w Duane Allman on Push Push, haven't heard him w Mick Taylor.

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:37 (five years ago) Permalink

"shrmoomy"? Billy Mumy on shrooms? Maybe--it's a goood life to be Lost In Space, Will Robinson!

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:41 (five years ago) Permalink

I wonder what the commercial success of most of these records was like. There sure as hell were a lot of them being made. Like did Lionel Hampton really do significantly better by releasing generic-ish space funk? Was the audience for trad that dead? Somehow I doubt it's what he really wanted to be doing, although maybe he didn't want to be doing trad either.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 April 2012 15:47 (five years ago) Permalink

well, you know, it was just modern music. people probably wanted to be modern. or at least try to be. and make money. a lot of trad jazz people made stuff like this but were still reliably normal live for their old trad fans.

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:49 (five years ago) Permalink

love that doc severinson/king crimson arrangement. feels like it should be repurposed for the next tarantino movie.

40oz of tears (Jordan), Friday, 20 April 2012 15:56 (five years ago) Permalink

There was a book, What Was The First Rock (or maybe Rock & Roll) Record? Reviewer said authors picked mid-40s Lionel Hampton rec, forget title.

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 16:38 (five years ago) Permalink

Wow thanks for all these fantastic recommendations scott

Brakhage, Friday, 20 April 2012 20:11 (five years ago) Permalink

... and everybody else as well, great stuff

Brakhage, Friday, 20 April 2012 20:12 (five years ago) Permalink

Scott that Blaine record is amazing. Srsly you are a true resource on this board.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 April 2012 20:12 (five years ago) Permalink

^^^ concurrence. Never would have known there was a "Stan Getz + sci-fi SFX" LP. Thanks to llurk's links, too. I listened to every one of these, great afternoon.

Advanced Uncle Meat recovery system (Dan Peterson), Friday, 20 April 2012 20:59 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I wanna get Captain Marvel: Getz w Tony Williams, Chick Corea, Lenny White--I've seen a review which mentions a track in which "Stan blows his mind with echo and delay", although he doesn't do that all the way through, and I know Allmusic's Jurek mentions the "tension" of sensibilities adding much charge to the album.


dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 21:34 (five years ago) Permalink

More on the rock side of things but Joyride's Friendsound record is pretty cool. Paul Revere & the Raiders members and session guys. The record has a stretched out southern california vibe. Lots of flute and really great samples and tape/sound effects. Really love this record. I would def pair it with the Howards recs.
And I'd like to also add that the Seward has turned my ears onto a treasure of new tunes.

sknybrg, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:21 (five years ago) Permalink

The live version is way better (can't find it on youtube), but this is one of my favorite Burton/Coryell songs that probably lives up to this thread's title...


The guitar solo on the live version is up there w/Lou Reed on the first VU album. I'm surprised it doesn't get mentioned more...

dlp9001, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:28 (five years ago) Permalink

Not sure if Ray Russell and Sharrock would fit in here or if they're too well-known

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:47 (five years ago) Permalink

needless to say, gil evans is my not easily categorizable hero. won't clutter up this thread with gil youtubes. but he covered just about every base from a jazz foundation in the 60's and 70's and 80's. and every record he made is worth owning.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:52 (five years ago) Permalink

i mean you can say the same about miles. the two people go hand in hand. and gil had a hand on many miles albums even when his name wasn't listed.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:53 (five years ago) Permalink

i HAVE to post this here though. so amazing.


scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:55 (five years ago) Permalink


Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:09 (five years ago) Permalink

I will be the Gil Clutterer

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:10 (five years ago) Permalink

not sure if stuff like this is what you're after, but cheesy jazz/psych records with unusual instrumentation were pretty common back in the day


cock chirea, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:12 (five years ago) Permalink


cock chirea, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:12 (five years ago) Permalink

i dig this album a bunch. it's definitely fusion, but its got a lot going on. free jazz, psych, prog, etc. vinyl copies don't sell for a ton. vinyl sounds great too. much better than this youtube rip, but what the hell, someone was kind enough to put up the whole album.


scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:14 (five years ago) Permalink

lots of stuff in this thread could also fit along the kozmigroov lines, no?


cock chirea, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:20 (five years ago) Permalink

Having a hard time finding clips but I will rep for

Nils Petter Molvær - Khmer
Spring Heel Jack & The Blue Series Continuum - Masses

which are two recent records that are fusionish and that I think are great

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:23 (five years ago) Permalink



Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:24 (five years ago) Permalink

This definitely fits the bill of the thread


Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:26 (five years ago) Permalink

i'm kinda playing fast and loose with the original thread idea! mentioning stuff i really like. i mean there is eddie harris stuff from the 70's that will make you say WAHT THE??? HELL did he just do? in the best way.

i'm trying to remember which john surman album i got that was so not free jazz or whatever. more like krautrock. awesome record. his pal terje made records like that. and then yeah you get into ECM territory. but there is great territory to explore in ECM world!

oh and speaking of Terje, that Esoteric Circle album is a fave of mine. early fusion. of the nordic persuasion.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:28 (five years ago) Permalink

i was just gonna post that john surman stu martin thing! weird. mostly for that awesome death metal intro. on a synth or oscillator or whatever it is. that record sells for peanuts and its so good. a lot of john surman records do. and barre philips records. etc. jukka records. i love jukka.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:30 (five years ago) Permalink

This was one of the very first group young guys making jazz with some kind of alleged rock connection I heard about, maybe even before Burton. Not quite the cover I remember seeing, but the closest I'm finding. Jeremy's Dad was William Steig, who maybe did this cover. Anybody heard it? Jeremy played electric flute, I think, like the guy in Blues Project, which I was def into (Danny Kalb was kind of a speedy ancestor of Verlaine and Lloyd, in the Bloomfield Newport/Highway 61 vein, but more often than Bloomfield) Anyway, here's Jeremy


dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:45 (five years ago) Permalink

i like his records. i don't love him though. i'm definitely a william steig fan though.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Sure looks like William did it, now that I can see more detail.

dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:53 (five years ago) Permalink

this is my favorite jeremy cover actually


scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:55 (five years ago) Permalink

he had a lot of good covers


scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:56 (five years ago) Permalink

Wow! Never saw most of those. Should also mention Hal Willner's gathering of various tribes in the 80s, esp for various wild takes on Weill,via Lost In The Stars (and later September Songs. Stay Awake was more uneven, but Sun Ra and Tom Waits had no prob with those Disney songs. Willner also produced the TV series Night Music; no doubt some of it's been on YouTube. Miles, Maria McKee, gee, you never knew who'd show up for the party. Al Green looked totally disgusted by Sun Ra's Arkestra, and just went BANG! BANG! BANG! on his cowbell (Syd Straw laughing wildly, her glasses rolling around). But when I played the audiotape back, he fit perfectly--sorry bout that Al! Mind you, having Charlie Haden behind Nick Cave's portentous ass on "The Mercy Seat" was so wrong--although Charlie looked amused, fortunately. But Sonny Rollins with Leonard Cohen fuckin' ruled Also pertaining to this thread:


dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 02:11 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, here's Sonny on Night Music w L.Cohen: "Who By Fire"


dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 02:45 (five years ago) Permalink

> Hard to categorize ...

Orchester Gustav Brom - präludium
from 'Missa Jazz' on MPS

meisenfek, Saturday, 21 April 2012 07:49 (five years ago) Permalink

> Bill Plummer & Cosmic Brotherhood

love the cover: barefooted man in suit

meisenfek, Saturday, 21 April 2012 08:04 (five years ago) Permalink

Is Ayler just too obvious for y'all?


Three Word Username, Saturday, 21 April 2012 09:06 (five years ago) Permalink

Never got round to New Grass but from that track its still too much in that obvious 'free' manner.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 21 April 2012 10:05 (five years ago) Permalink

On further reflection tho' I love the thread concept - never spent too long w/fusion but like how this is stated in a way that allows for fusion-y and free-ish stuff to co-exist...so need to investigate some of the tracks a bit more.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 21 April 2012 10:11 (five years ago) Permalink

xyzzz, did you make it past the first 30 seconds?

Three Word Username, Saturday, 21 April 2012 10:41 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah, the sung part and then funk-type backing aren't given much space by Ayler

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 21 April 2012 10:53 (five years ago) Permalink

yeah, like that Moon Man record i mentioned by Charles Lloyd is perfect for this thread. respected young post-bop jazz sax player makes completely bonkers...uh...rock? record.

but then i kinda cheated by posting something like that Friends album which is John Abercrombie and other young weirdos. It is a mix of things, but its not like the people who made it were well-known for doing other things first. they were young.

i like anomalies in people's catalogs.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:11 (five years ago) Permalink

speaking of early hybrids, john abercrombie was a part of stark reality. 1969. rock/funk/jazz/everything music.




scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:18 (five years ago) Permalink

All of this really goes to further illustrate how deep the jazz well goes. You can get to know some rock or some punk but there is just a planet load of crazy jazz that was cut in the age of the LP.

Part of it is alot of this stuff never came back in the CD age, so large swaths of it are probably not easy to find.

Someone unscrupulous or someone beneficent should put together some box sets of this kind of thing.

earlnash, Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:28 (five years ago) Permalink

this is hard to categorize - like gil evans meets ez listening and 70s tv commercial soundtracks? also includes orchestrated take on "birds of fire"


demolition with discretion (m coleman), Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:40 (five years ago) Permalink

i'd never heard that dizzy album until today. man, gotta be one of the funkiest records on Pablo. sounds so great on the hi-fi. i love lalo to pieces. what a genius.

and i've never heard that freddie hubbard thing!

scott seward, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:27 (five years ago) Permalink

Dear god


Brakhage, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:28 (five years ago) Permalink

looks like Skot is the only one who ever posted about this but yeah


have become kinda obsessed with this one lately, proto-new age/world/jazz/rock produced by George Martin, sitar (played by their conga guy?!) on 'Ode to a Fillmore Dressing Room' slays me.

llurk, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:57 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, that was kind of at the crossroads of what some called The New Acoustic Music (Grisman called his approach dawg music)and new age--like world music, not quite an established musical/marketing category yet. Oregon's Music Of Another Present Era was another late-night FM fave, along with Icarus--also Codona's stuff, but I think one of their key members got killed on the road. Oregon has gotten back together occasionally.

dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 17:29 (five years ago) Permalink

David Murray has recorded at least one album of Grateful Dead songs (wanna say there's two, but can only find Dark Star at the moment). he also recorded with them live, and you can stream it from dead.net, though I don't feel like negotiating with my firewall at the moment--not that I don't trust Grateful Dead Radio, but what if something else is waiting--anyway, I'm told that the Dead weren't quite up to Murray at this point ('93), but here's one with his own Octet:

dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 17:33 (five years ago) Permalink

And another


dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 17:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Ornette Coleman played w the Dead too; not seeing that, but here's Garcia w Coleman & Prime Time:


dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 17:41 (five years ago) Permalink

^ sounds like a timbaland beat

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 April 2012 18:45 (five years ago) Permalink

Not sure what to really categorize this stuff as, but Danny Gatton (guitar) and Buddy Emmons (pedal steel) did some pretty cool stuff as the Redneck Jazz Explosion:

Good footage (kinda crazy watching Gatton's hands)

Softspot for this one too, though almost loungey at times:

grandavis, Thursday, 26 April 2012 19:01 (five years ago) Permalink

speaking of paul winter, this belongs here too


scott seward, Thursday, 26 April 2012 19:08 (five years ago) Permalink

oh yeah, I forgot they did that w Elvin, talk about an extended range! Brave Oregon pioneers. Before I forget, Robert Randolph has been known to chase Trane on pedal steel, and he's once again on an Experience Hendrix tour. Turtle Island String Quartet has also covered Hendrix well, ditto Coltrane, a whole album of his songs, and ones he covered/ They've got that barefoot sound. And also before I forget, always liked this--Pavement transmuted, inspiration no longer seemingly offhanded, still cool

dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 21:30 (five years ago) Permalink

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