lvt is such a shit though
― Time, a group with Jam and Lewis (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 20 April 2012 06:09 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, he's a handful
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 06:14 (eleven years ago) link
URGENT: ilxors voting in this poll who have not seen the original 1988 Dutch version of The Vanishing (aka Spoorloos) owe it to yourselves to do so before submitting your ballots. Please proceed directly to your Netflix queue & do not look up any info on the film b/c the less you know, the better.
― picture jean rollin (Pillbox), Friday, 20 April 2012 11:40 (eleven years ago) link
i find the experience of watching helpless women brutalized at length a genuinely horrible experience. the more i'm encouraged to sympathize, the greater my distress and anger, especially if things end on a hopeless note. this makes me a very bad audience for certain films.
That's really OTM for me as well. I am also still angry (like, if I think about it, I will get actually angry) about Breaking the Waves.
― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:15 (eleven years ago) link
martyrs seems much more honest about wanting to get to the same place as lvt tbh
― jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:16 (eleven years ago) link
like i think if lvt was honest with himself he'd just end with [HORRIBLE ACT REDACTED] to bring his female characters to "enlightenment."
― jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:17 (eleven years ago) link
We watched Breaking the Waves like... eleven years ago? and I still remember watching this movie, and being like, well, this woman is a fool but let's see where it all goes, and the end happened and I spent about an hour sobbing on the couch and probably wasn't right again for a couple of days and since then, I've had a strict no LVT policy.
― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:22 (eleven years ago) link
otoh i think contendo *does* have a bit of a point. visitor q and martyrs are probably the only two films that will make my list that i wouldnt recommend to anyone who wouldnt be down with what they're gonna get, and maybe its not coincidental they're both 21c flicks.
― jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:22 (eleven years ago) link
Okay I just read the Wikipedia summary for Visitor Q and that is completely batshit.
― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:26 (eleven years ago) link
actually i recommend visitor q to the whole family.
― jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:27 (eleven years ago) link
lol
― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:29 (eleven years ago) link
otm I think its essential honesty to theme and form is the main reason why Martyrs is more effective than lvt and also seedier genre nasties like Human Centipede and what not.
― picture jean rollin (Pillbox), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:31 (eleven years ago) link
Obviously this is Eric's and Pillbox's call, but my own feeling on stills: atmospheric/moody rather than bloody corpses/exploding heads. I know many would strongly disagree.― clemenza, Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:45 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― clemenza, Thursday, April 19, 2012 10:45 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
RE: Stills - Wherever possible, I would like to use thematically appropriate, tho non-iconic screengrabs taken from the films themselves. I mean, this IS a horror poll, but if images should neccessarily be kept SFW, I can stay w/in said parameters if that is the general consensus?
― fishermen are coveted by whores & stoners (Pillbox), Friday, 20 April 2012 13:55 (eleven years ago) link
Not sure what it is that makes me respond well to LVT when I usually can't tolerate Haneke.
― jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Friday, 20 April 2012 13:55 (eleven years ago) link
Nah, it's a horror poll, come on.
― emil.y, Friday, 20 April 2012 13:56 (eleven years ago) link
xpost
seedier genre nasties like Human Centipede
Human Centipede really wasn't that bad. I mean, the very premise is dire and I admit I left the room for the few minutes depicting the actual surgery (so I don't even know how graphic that was) but compared to, say, Last House on the Left*, it was pretty benign, almost campy. I actually liked it a lot and like I've said, movies with brutality as a central theme are not my cup of tea.
― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Friday, 20 April 2012 14:09 (eleven years ago) link
*asterisk to nowhere
there's actually nothing that explicit in the human centipede, one of the things I loved about it was that tom six managed to terrorize, scandalize & traumatize audiences with 3 naked people and a couple of pieces of gauze. as with most great horror films, it's works based on the implication of something more than the graphicness of it.
and the fact you were driven from the room based merely on the description of something is a great success! </dr heiter>
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 20 April 2012 14:30 (eleven years ago) link
*it works*
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 20 April 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
Oh that was no success. I'm a huge wuss and scenes of forced medical procedures are one of my big freak out buttons. Getting me to leave the room on the threat of sewing three people together mouth to anus is about as hard as startling a sleeping house cat.
― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Friday, 20 April 2012 14:36 (eleven years ago) link
But I agree w/ you completely about the movie.
― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Friday, 20 April 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
The episode of How It's Made with a piece about laser eye surgery was far, far more horrifying than anything in Human Centipede.
― People aren't for comparing, they are for loving. (Je55e), Friday, 20 April 2012 14:55 (eleven years ago) link
Here's a list of everything from the nomination list that appears to be currently streaming on Netflix:
Antichrist (2009) Atrocious Audition (1999) Baby, The Beast Within, The (1982) Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon Black Belly of the Tarantula, The Black Sabbath Blue Sunshine Bucket of Blood, A Burn, Witch, Burn Butcher, The C.H.U.D. (1984) Candyman (1992) Captain Kronos: Vampire Hunter (1974) Carrie (1976) Child's Play Creepshow (1982) Creepshow 2 (1987) Dahmer Dark Half, The Daughters of DarknessDead and Buried (1981) Dead End (2003 Deadgirl (2008) Deathdream (1972) Deep Red (1975) Dust Devil (1992) Eaten Alive (1977) Evil Dead, The Exorcist, The Faust (1926) Fido Fog, The (1980) Friday the 13th (1980)Friday The 13th Part II From Dusk Til Dawn (1996) Funny Games (1997) Fury, The (1978) Gate, The (1987) Grizzly Park Hatchet Hellraiser (1987) Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer Host, The Hour of the Wolf (1968) House (1986) House of the Devil, The Human Centipede 2: The Full Sequence, The Human Centipede: First Sequence, The Inferno (Argento) Initiation of Sarah, The (1978) Interview With The Vampire Isolation (2005) Keep, The Killer Klowns from Outer Space (1988) Lifeforce (1985) Little Girl Who Lives Down The Lane, The (1976) Lost Boys, The (1987) Lost, The Maniac (1980) Maniac Cop Mimic (1997) Nightmares (1983) Nosferatu (1922) Parents Pet Sematary (1989) Phantasm II (1988) Pit and the Pendulum, The Pontypool Prince of Darkness Pulse Rubber Scream, Blackula, Scream (1973) Severance Squirm (1976) Tale of Two Sisters, A Them (2006) To The Devil... A Daughter (1976) Tremors (1990) Triangle (2009) Trick r' Treat Ugly, The (1997) Videodrome Village of the Damned (1995)
― Darin, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
whoa, thank you!!
― Time, a group with Jam and Lewis (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 20 April 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
was Hatchet actually any good? I always think of it as "the Newbury Comics horror movie" because of how it was promoted here
― I need new, hip khakis (DJP), Friday, 20 April 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
regarding recent trends in horror.... I've been a horror fan for over 30 years, I've seen a lot of subgenres come and go, and the past 10 years have been an embarrassment of riches. anybody complaining about the current state of horror needs to check themselves. yea, torture porn has been a dominant (and sometimes tiring) force, but there's also been asian ghost stories, zombie innovations (I'll reel off my standard list - the 28 movies, pontypool, deadgirl, the signal, the end of the line), and plenty of quality outliers (sauna, home movie). plus extreme horror has delivered its own set of triumphs among the copycat gruelfests, and at a higher rate than slasher films or 90s-meta ever did. jjjusten has a point about torture porn being a useless pejorative - everybody hates torture porn, and if you like one of the films falling under that rubric you're suddenly in a position of explaining why it's *not* torture porn, or how it distinguishes itself from its own subgenre.
that so much of modern horror is based on a knowing helplessness (e.g. a victim strapped into a torture dungeon) rather than on fear of the unknown accurately reflects our 21st century position. we know everything now, an enormous world of information is available to us with a brief swipe of our fingertips, yet terrorism and war abound and our daily happiness is at the mercy of global economies and market forces beyond our control. as our collective roles in society are defined as passive consumers of information, the terror is not some ancient unknowable evil, or in the suspense of being hunted - it is in "how much will I be shown / how much can I endure?" the tools are laid out on the table in plain view, the straps unsubtle, the ritual inevitable. the fact that a number of directors have been able to extend this trope beyond its inbuilt limitations is something to celebrate imo.
for example, I'll defend martyrs as being a thoughtful, self-reflexive hall of mirrors. the torture on display is not for sadistic pleasure or kicks, which is what we assume when the film begins. as its characters' motivations become clearer, our own motivations for watching are called into play. and laugier doesn't shove it down your throat, or pull any aesthetic dirty tricks like a haneke or von trier. he constructs a plot to keep you guessing but doesn't lead you around by the nose, never tries to seduce you into enjoyment or complicity, and - this is critical - doesn't patronize the audience or his characters. it's interesting how the film revels in grotesque intensity but never feels cheap or sordid, and how that overtly arty and clinical approach still manages to remain squarely in the horror genre.
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 20 April 2012 16:16 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks for the list, Darin! The Nightmares on Instant isn't the one that was nominated, though. And I'm guessing you consulted instantwatcher, because Hellraiser II is available on Instant but doesn't show up on that site (which isn't the first time I've noticed stuff missing from instantwatcher).
― Potty Problems (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 20 April 2012 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
i've been meaning to watch fido for a while now ... also, just got ferrera's the driller killer (thanks for the recommendation, kjb!) so i'll see what's up w/ that one.
― a big fat fucking fat guy in a barrel what could be better? (Eisbaer), Friday, 20 April 2012 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, wait, nobody nommed "Jeepers Creepers," did they? That should've been on the list. Unexpectedly good.
― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Friday, 20 April 2012 16:48 (eleven years ago) link
Daren, you are awesome, thanks!
― People aren't for comparing, they are for loving. (Je55e), Friday, 20 April 2012 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
Haha, Phil, I thought Jeepers Creepers was awful.
― emil.y, Friday, 20 April 2012 16:59 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, I used instantwatcher for reference, but you're right - I don't think it's 100% accurate.
― Darin, Friday, 20 April 2012 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
thx darrin! you've been the secret mvp of this poll...
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
if you missed any of these classics, get at 'em
Carrie (1976) Evil Dead, The Exorcist, TheNosferatu (1922)
these are all worthwhile watches
Audition (1999) Black Sabbath (if only for "the drop of water")Blue Sunshine Candyman (1992) Daughters of DarknessDead and Buried (1981) Deadgirl (2008) Deathdream (1972) Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer Host, The Hour of the Wolf (1968) Human Centipede: First Sequence, The Inferno (Argento) Initiation of Sarah, The (1978) Little Girl Who Lives Down The Lane, The (1976) Pontypool PulseTale of Two Sisters, A Them (2006) Videodrome
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:13 (eleven years ago) link
xxp But Jeepers Creepers kills off Justin Long! What's not to like?
You have to admit it's probably the best horror film directed by a convicted child molester, though.
― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
sorry that honor goes to rosemary's baby
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
OTM
― jungleous butterflies strange birds (Eric H.), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks, Darin!!!
― HE HATES THESE CANS (Austerity Ponies), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:17 (eleven years ago) link
you all can talk about how awesome it is until you're blue in the face but I am not watching Deadgirl
― I need new, hip khakis (DJP), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
I did not know this. My first instinct was similar to EIII's, though I'd say Repulsion rather than Rosemary's Baby, but didn't he abscond before conviction? Or was he convicted but not sentenced? Though let's not turn this into another ethics of Polanski thread.
― emil.y, Friday, 20 April 2012 17:29 (eleven years ago) link
just wanna thank e3 for his dropped science, and not just cuz i agree with him.
― jesus christ (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:37 (eleven years ago) link
was Hatchet actually any good?
Not really. Just about watchable but you might as well be viewing any lousy eighties comedy horror franchise effort.
― Une semaine de Bunty (ShariVari), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
i recommend not watching deadgirl. it's well-made, smart, challenging and awful.
and hatchet is a complete POS with one all-time great gore moment
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 17:59 (eleven years ago) link
Hatchet was mildly diverting, but I was fairly squicked to learn after the fact that the vomiting scenes in the movie were (completely unnecessarily) real.
― Potty Problems (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 20 April 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
the most amazing thing about deadgirl is jenny spain's performance. she doesn't let the makeup do the acting, and if she had gotten it wrong the whole thing would've gone down the tubes, so easy for that to go laughable or intolerable. also perhaps an influence on mckee's the woman?
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 20 April 2012 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
ps fistbump to strongo
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 20 April 2012 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
We watched Breaking the Waves like... eleven years ago? and I still remember watching this movie, and being like, well, this woman is a fool but let's see where it all goes, and the end happened and I spent about an hour sobbing on the couch and probably wasn't right again for a couple of days and since then, I've had a strict no LVT policy.― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Friday, April 20, 2012 5:22 AM (5 hours ago)
― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Friday, April 20, 2012 5:22 AM (5 hours ago)
When it was over, as the light played on the bridge and then the credits rolled, I wept uncontrollably. This wasn't the brief, misty-eyed tearfulness I sometimes experience in response to children's films and other forms of cheap, sentimental uplift. These were full, wracking, heartsick sobs, and they lasted for quite a while. I'd never before and have never since had that response to art of any kind. Afterwards, I didn't feel angry any more. I felt drained, and in feeling drained I felt strangely calm and clear, purged and refined, as though I'd successfully navigated some sort of meditative ritual. It's the only experience I've ever had that even vaguely resembles what people call "catharsis", and it was hugely valuable to me.
I'll defend martyrs as being a thoughtful, self-reflexive hall of mirrors. the torture on display is not for sadistic pleasure or kicks, which is what we assume when the film begins. as its characters' motivations become clearer, our own motivations for watching are called into play. and laugier doesn't shove it down your throat, or pull any aesthetic dirty tricks like a haneke or von trier. he constructs a plot to keep you guessing but doesn't lead you around by the nose, never tries to seduce you into enjoyment or complicity, and - this is critical - doesn't patronize the audience or his characters. it's interesting how the film revels in grotesque intensity but never feels cheap or sordid, and how that overtly arty and clinical approach still manages to remain squarely in the horror genre.― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, April 20, 2012 9:16 AM (1 hour ago)
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, April 20, 2012 9:16 AM (1 hour ago)
For what it's worth and imo, the way Lars von Trier seduces us "into complicity" with his melodramatic agenda is one of the most brilliant things about Breaking the Waves. We are told up front that we will be manipulated, that we will be made to feel things. The film is very clear about this, and I respect its clarity. It allows us to say, "No, I am not so easily manipulated. I refuse to feel what you so obviously want me to feel." It solicits an oppositional response, and this in turn allows von Trier to play the incredible trick of making us feel exactly what he wants anyway, despite our awareness of the game being played. He manages to manipulate our emotions without playing any "tricks", with all the cards on the table, admitting all along exactly what he's up to. Von Trier even mocks his own appeal to emotion by calling attention the protagonist's fondness for cheap, sentimental, "spiritually moving" bric-a-brac. And the emotional reward (or punishment, if you prefer) he finally offers is profound. Or so it seems to me.
I don't see Martyrs as doing anything anywhere near as clever, perverse or daring. But that's more a matter of taste than relative "quality". I expect that others will see things differently.
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
yeah lars von trier sucks dude
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 20 April 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
wow that was long. sry all...
anyway, i was super hungover and depressed when i saw deadgirl, so maybe that affected my judgment. now that you mention it, edward, it is quite similar to mckee's the woman, and i dug that one. should probably see it again, in a less grouchy and sensitive frame of mind.
ignore me on deadgirl until i rescreen
― yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link