rolling "Is This Racist?" thread

yeah learning that the newspaper was a right wing one made things make much more sense - if swedish newspapers of that kind are anything like british ones, they'll probably target modern art at every given opportunity, and conflate using offensive imagery with actually being offensive while pretending the context doesn't exist

xp it's right in the paragraph you quoted

I'm not sure how to feel about Makode Linde's performance/conceptual piece. It's clearly transgressive, deeply unsettling, awful in many ways, but it's not entirely without substance.

Perhaps the only acceptable response is to condemn Linde, as the author of that wonderfully named blog does, for representing something other than his own "designated group" and/or personal experience. That's the safest strategy, based on the idea that we're all allowed to comment on ourselves, on the group(s) to which we seemingly belong, and on those we see as our oppressors - but everybody else is off-limits. By this standard, a man simply isn't entitled to make gross, transgressive art about female genital mutilation in Africa, regardless of his race or intent.

This is at least a coherent and morally sensible position. But i don't know... I agree to a large extent and this is pretty much how I try to handle these issues in my own life, but at the same time, I'm somewhat bothered by the puritanical and legalistically rigid nature of this approach.

^ i'm responding there to the thankyoubasedsantorum.tumblr that zachylon linked

lex "i don't care" does not mean "i don't know"

I think the point made by that Tumblr is more that it was an appropriation of an experience that wasn't his and presented in a manner almost guaranteed to be offensive and misunderstood, showing a profound lack of empathy for the issues meant to be addressed by the piece in the first place.

Like, it's okay to talk about female genital mutilation in Africa, but it's not really okay to make yourself into a screaming edible cake if you want the issue to be taken seriously.

where is Issues That Can Be Addressed by Screaming Edible Cake poll

Guess I'll have to come up with something else besides my Anne Frank Strawberry Shortcake Surprise for NPR's next remote at the University.

esp given the nature of a lot of performance art, which is as much about the issue as it is the identity of the performer. it's not really possible for him to separate the two when he goes about it like this. xp to DJP

he could have had plausible separation had he hired a woman to be the head of the cake, I think

am I the only one who was reminded of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucNYLsjKaTQ

I think the point made by that Tumblr is more that it was an appropriation of an experience that wasn't his and presented in a manner almost guaranteed to be offensive and misunderstood, showing a profound lack of empathy for the issues meant to be addressed by the piece in the first place.

yeah, i get that, but i don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with art that is "almost guaranteed to be offensive and misunderstood", and "a profound lack of empathy" is very much in the eye of the beholder. when you take it down to basic principles, the blogger's problem is that, while linde may be black, he is not a woman, and his piece is therefore unjustifiable. if linde were a black woman, then her criticisms wouldn't hold. her headline makes this very clear:

Apparently Makode (the artist behind “Painful Cake”) is not a woman.

he could have had plausible separation had he hired a woman to be the head of the cake, I think

yeah maybe, or better yet, if it were a collaborative piece involving a black woman artist

or maybe they could've even found/paid one of the probably-countless women of color who could just as well have created a notable piece of art about FGM in africa (sexism is everywhere y'all)

lol xp

well obviously; my point was more about "what would make Makode's screaming mutilation cake more acceptable" than "what would be an acceptable performance art piece on genital mutilation"

yeah, i get that, but i don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with art that is "almost guaranteed to be offensive and misunderstood", and "a profound lack of empathy" is very much in the eye of the beholder. when you take it down to basic principles, the blogger's problem is that, while linde may be black, he is not a woman, and his piece is therefore unjustifiable. if linde were a black woman, then her criticisms wouldn't hold. her headline makes this very clear:

what exactly is wrong with this tho, or are you just on some "this is reverse sexism!" shit

and anyway, if you read more of that blog in particular you'll find older posts that are still decrying the cake, before the blogger learned linde's gender. i just posted that one because it was relevant to the discussion here.

Do you post false dichotomies because you were beaten as a child, or are you a child beater?

lol

what exactly is wrong with this tho, or are you just on some "this is reverse sexism!" shit

i don't think there is anything wrong with this. i do have some (soft) reservations about this sort of thinking when it becomes a set of hard-and-fast rules. it's not the moral principles i object to, as they seem quite sound, but rather the rigidity and seeming puritanism of the stance.

you see it as rigidity, but i read that post and i see a lot of logical reasoning as to why this specific case is fucked. there's a precedent and a history of this type of stuff, and the blog was responding to it. not necessarily saying that men of color can never create art that centers on women of color, just that this piece of art is an example of going about it wrong.

when it comes down to it, from what i can tell, the cake thing has succeeded in A) offending/hurting women of color and B) making white people laugh. from any vantage point, hard to call it a success imo

oh hey it's a zillion post argument about whether that's obviously totally fucked and offensive is fucked and offensive

you see it as rigidity, but i read that post and i see a lot of logical reasoning as to why this specific case is fucked. there's a precedent and a history of this type of stuff, and the blog was responding to it. not necessarily saying that men of color can never create art that centers on women of color, just that this piece of art is an example of going about it wrong.

when it comes down to it, from what i can tell, the cake thing has succeeded in A) offending/hurting women of color and B) making white people laugh. from any vantage point, hard to call it a success imo

i think we're speaking at cross purposes. i agree with the blogger's criticism of this piece. i generally agree with the principles in which her criticisms are grounded. otoh, i have some vague reservations about the way those basically good principles are sometimes (or perhaps just could be) applied. that's all. not trying to stir up an argument or claim "reverse sexism" or any such bullshit. just exploring some tangents.

fwiw, i read the laughter in that video as a sign of discomfort more than jollity. not that that really matters much.

I read the laughter in that video as a sign that people don't take screaming cakes seriously as a medium for making a political point.

well maybe we can at least all agree that artists are the fucking worst.

not always, but sometimes they really are.

"Haha, well, this is certainly making me feel uncomfortable!"
"Because it raises your awareness of female genital mutilations in Africa?"
"…um, yes. ………. ……. No."

Are the laughing women in on the 'joke'?

people like makode linde are the absolute worst and i sincerely wish he had the balls to have himself butchered in public, that's obviously what he wants. one of those pathetic self-absorbed twats who live to spread themselves like a virus and use everything and everyone they can to do so.

*closes facebook page*

where my tea at

really doesn't like artists

not braying racist fame whore hypocrites who love being artists because it validates their every fart no. even if they're aware of it!

you know, that cake is pretty well crafted

lol

I can think of a lot better ways to get the word out about FGM than this stunt. What's particularly egregious here is that this was supposed to be art (hence my question whether the laughing ppl were 'in on the joke', i.e. active participants) but it seems to be the kind of art that causes less light than heat in the end and it has a disturbing smugness to it. To what real extent do Swedes need additional info on African FGM? Is this a learning moment for ppl at right-wing Swedish newspapers or just sub-par trolling?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396530_10150574858234684_400133822_n.jpg

Natalie Ferraro
i love your work. thank you for being brave and thoughtful and creative about how we look at atrocities.
Like · · 24 minutes ago near Los Angeles, CA

Martin Fredriksson
This piece of art is painful, absurd, abusive. And pain, absurdity and abuse should preferably take place somewhere else, where we don't have to see it. I think all the hate that is thrown at the artist now is becoming part of the piece of art itself, showing how selective people can be in what they let bother them, and what we can just ignore. We are all having a slice of this cake every day, but we usually don't have to hear the desperate horror while we carve it out. I'm disturbed, puzzled.
Like · · 51 minutes ago
Michelle Heugh-Joseph likes this.

Ekene Daniel
Sell out. You disgust me!
Like · · 54 minutes ago
Michelle Heugh-Joseph likes this.

Victoria Holt
I also think it's really sad that you're deleting some people's comments. Art is about a conversation, and you SURE started one. So own up and take the hate, you deserve it!
Like · · 59 minutes ago
Michelle Heugh-Joseph likes this.

Didier Pando
tu te crois malin ? conard !!! https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s320x320/540280_208772595904058_100003139573389_346865_770455583_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s320x320/540280_208772595904058_100003139573389
fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net
Like · · Share · about an hour ago

Dwayne Jackson
I get it. You were raised with nothing but white people, so you think this IS art?!? DUDE you are fucked up. Why don't you go lay in a tub of bleach. Put your head under, and INHALE. That way you can be what you want inside and out.
Like · · about an hour ago
2 people like this.

Ismail Mahomed
There are three elements to making good art:
Aesthetics
Responsibility
Truth
You fail dismally at all three!!!
Like · · about an hour ago via mobile
4 people like this.

Chad Gardner
it looks like voodoo art yes/no
Like · · about an hour ago

racist?

don't see much evidence of racism in linde's work

We are all having a slice of this cake every day, but we usually don't have to hear the desperate horror while we carve it out. I'm disturbed, puzzled.

What if we are all diabetic.

I am reasonably certain I am not having a slice of African female genital mutilation cake every day

I mean first off, my pants still fit

haha that guy literally does have a slice of that cake every day.

second, i am not simultaneously barfing and crying all the time

It's the kind of thing one would tend to remember, methinks

crying maybe xp

* the minister of culture is carving out the crotch of a screaming caricature of an african woman and feeding it to her.
* everyone's taking out their cameras

Q: Where's the best place not to be under these circumstances?

In line for seconds?

Arby's!

A: Newark

would not want to be on Facebook.com.nu this afternoon.

What kind of tea does one serve with African female genital mutilation cake? Malarial tea?