THE VAULT OF ILX Top 100 HORROR Movies Poll Voting Thread (voting closes May 9 *~*~*~*2012*~*~*~*)

I think the thing that pushes Apaches firmly into the realm of horror is the aparent nonchalance of the adults. Oh, three of your playmates have died on that farm in as many days? Well, pay it no mind, dear. Run along and play now. It's infanticide by proxy, I tells ya.

more discussion of Apaches here: Public information HORROR film.

Hmmmm. Amaches may be getting a couple points.

I think the thing that pushes Apaches firmly into the realm of horror is the aparent nonchalance of the adults. Oh, three of your playmates have died on that farm in as many days? Well, pay it no mind, dear. Run along and play now.

i interpret this more as LOL Britishes than LOL horror.

just submitted a ballot. i think most of the ilx hardcore horror crew would not be happy with it, it's pretty canonical and i tend to favor non-gore-heavy movies, but i had a few idiosyncratic choices that i wanted to make sure got points or else i wouldn't have bothered voting

Oh, y'know, I shoulda nominated Burnt Offerings. That movie creeped the hell out of me.

It's on there, I think.

Wait, no. Sorry!

I mean, I don't think it's probably a good movie. But as a teenager, it spooked me.

I'd actually argue that, in a lot of cases, the extent that a horror film veers away from 'matter of fact' is the extent to which it pulls its punches. I enjoy a great deal of stylistic variation within the genre, but the pulled punches are the reason I find very little of the genre legitimately scary.

"punches" certainly have something to do with horror, but aren't usually all that scary in and of themselves (jump scares notwithstanding). a film that simply and graphically depicted an child being burned with a lighter for an hour or two couldn't be accused of pulling any punches, but it probably wouldn't be at all scary. it would simply be repulsive and dispiriting. i completely disagree with deric here. matter of factness has no relationship to scariness. i'm not more scared by a knife wielding maniac in a film than a ghost simply because i think the former is more likely to exist. i'm not more scared by realism than fantasy. the scariest thing, imo, are the inchoate shapes the evocatively sculpted unknown can conjure in our minds. this is david lynch's best trick, and his films are hardly "matter of fact".

the scariest thing, imo, are the inchoate shapes the evocatively sculpted unknown can conjure in our minds.

see, I think the scariest thing is subject-verb disagreement

lol THINGS

I actually think we're agreeing in a weird way, contenderizer. When I say 'matter of fact' in this context, I'm not talking about bluntness or jump scares or realism (crazy dude vs. Lovecraftian Other) but rather the method of presentation. Camera tricks and spoooooky scores and anything OTT and showy are always, AFAIC, going to undercut any scares that a horror movie might've otherwise delivered. I'd argue that, by the definition I'm utilizing, Lynch's films are incredibly 'matter of fact' and, as a result, super effective. I suppose 'subtle' is a better word? It's about creating a substrate of normalcy that lulls the viewer into a false sense of security before letting things go horribly awry.

agreed, contenderizer. mystery/the unknown is much more effective than laying everything out. making something familiar/normal/matter-of-fact takes away what makes it frightening - or if it's something sadistic or disgusting that really shouldn't be normalized/made familiar, then it's just cruel and depressing

Camera tricks and spoooooky scores and anything OTT and showy are always, AFAIC, going to undercut any scares that a horror movie might've otherwise delivered.

i'm even more lost now. lynch relies heavily on effects and music to generate a sense of dread.

figure you're drawing a distinction between that which reads as "horror cliche" and other means of generating atmosphere. on that level, i agree. old-fashioned "spooky" organ doesn't seem scary anymore because it's become familiar.

I mean, I can see the horror of being forced to face some abject condition, like Cronenberg-style body horror, but if it veers too much in to some demystified, scientifically-clinical, almost sociopathic perspective on the condition then it's taking away the alienation and repulsion that actually makes it horrific and becomes a sociopathic gaze

re apaches: LOL death by drowning in animal shit

on the subject of Ingmar-horror, i'll also stan for the virgin spring ... you get to see a young, buff Max von Sydow uproot a birch tree, rip off its branches and flog himself before doing his ass-whuppin'. it's also available on HuluPlus.

Does its availability on HuluPlus make it horror too?

I think Through a Glass Darkly is the creepiest of the Bergmans I've seen. (Whether or not it's a horror film.)

that's what i get by forgetting english composition basics, i suppose.

xpost

ah didn't see Deric's response xxp.

I mean, I can see the horror of being forced to face some abject condition, like Cronenberg-style body horror, but if it veers too much in to some demystified, scientifically-clinical, almost sociopathic perspective on the condition then it's taking away the alienation and repulsion that actually makes it horrific and becomes a sociopathic gaze

this is an interesting distinction, though i'm not sure about the "sociopathic gaze" part. i strongly dislike what i consider sadism-as-horror, where the horror element is simply the spectacle of prolonged suffering, dehumanization and despair. this type of horror is often very matter of fact, but i rarely find it scary or otherwise compelling.

figure you're drawing a distinction between that which reads as "horror cliche" and other means of generating atmosphere. on that level, i agree. old-fashioned "spooky" organ doesn't seem scary anymore because it's become familiar.

Yes, this is what I mean. Me am no good describe things today. Standard horror movie scoring, for example, often detracts from scariness, whereas the use of source music or Lynchian sound effects/scoring (or no music at all) tends to be much more effective.

I'm starting to suspect that our ballots won't be too stylistically dissimilar from one another, contenderizer.

that apaches film is something else ... it's one part dry horror, one part critique of American cultural imperialism (the flower of British youth playing Cowboys and Indians and running around w/ popguns imitating Starsky & Hutch), and one part surrealism. i also just found out via Wikipedia that it was directed by the same guy who directed the long good friday (one of my favorite British films of all time).

I've been pretty busy w/ lolwork of late & missed a lot of activity on the previous thread.. I'm just curious is Mr. Hal Jam has chimed in on any of this. I have much love for all yall ilx horror stans, but that dude's ballot is the one I'm most curious about (if he submits one, that is).

the girl who tastes the poison and then dies screaming later that night was the one that REALLY got to me

that, and the parents solemnly emptying the dead kids' dressers

I'm just curious is Mr. Hal Jam has chimed in on any of this. I have much love for all yall ilx horror stans, but that dude's ballot is the one I'm most curious about (if he submits one, that is).

yeah, i'd be interested in hearing from HJ, too, but i don't think i've seen him posting on horror threads since i returned a few months back

when we were in grade school, we had one gross-out contest where we had to answer whether we'd rather drown in a tubful of shit or a tubful of vomit.

"I would prefer not to."

I said mr hal jam's name 3x into a mirror at midnight on the nom thread and he still didn't appear

Oh, y'know, I shoulda nominated Burnt Offerings. That movie creeped the hell out of me.

I mean, I don't think it's probably a good movie. But as a teenager, it spooked me.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Monday, April 16, 2012 4:04 PM (1 hour ago)

same here, it's not a very good movie but it has some super creepy parts. namely:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/burnt_offerings.jpg

this is an interesting distinction, though i'm not sure about the "sociopathic gaze" part. i strongly dislike what i consider sadism-as-horror, where the horror element is simply the spectacle of prolonged suffering, dehumanization and despair. this type of horror is often very matter of fact, but i rarely find it scary or otherwise compelling.

― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, April 16, 2012 4:36 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This seems like a very tricky distinction to make wrt horror in general. Anything short of an actual snuff film that is made w/ respect to the genre, even tangentially, will generally have at least some element of the macabre - I would say this is true of even the most sadistic examples of recent 'torture porn' & 70s exploitation. I could see rejecting something like Salo or I Spit on Your Grave on such a basis, but both of those are on the far-flung fringes of the genre anyway, and might not even constitute inclusion as legit 'horror' by many (though I tend to allot fairly wide parameters personally).

Also, p sure you came to the defense of Cannibal Holocaust when I ranted about the turtle scene some years ago - and if CH doesn't epitomize what you're talking about, what would?

Standard horror movie scoring, for example, often detracts from scariness, whereas the use of source music or Lynchian sound effects/scoring (or no music at all) tends to be much more effective.

agreed on this. I'd say the problem today is an overreliance on a certain kind of jumpy post-Mtv editing and color treatment (that originated in late-90s Marylin Manson/nu-metal videos) that tries really hard to be cool/edgy (in a Hot Topic/mallgoth/WB/CW-series/Slipknot way) rather than scary (maybe the horror version of the raised-eyebrow-poochie-Pixar-film problem?), and especially a lazy fallback on loud booms and cracks and jumpscares (not to be confused with Lynch's nightmarish use of sound and atmosphere). horror trailers almost completely rely on loud cracking noises and lame Korn aesthetics

speaking of which, have y'all seen rob zombie's woolite commercial???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj87E-bc3xE

^ tops the list of things I'd never thought I'd say back when I was blasting white zombie's soulcrusher in my bedroom in 1988

lol

'don't let your laundry get tied up into a Slipknot"

Also, p sure you came to the defense of Cannibal Holocaust when I ranted about the turtle scene some years ago - and if CH doesn't epitomize what you're talking about, what would?

I'm not a Cannibal Holocaust defender and never have been (unless I'm forgetting something). The animal cruelty is bad enough, but I find the whole thing infuriatingly hypocritical, pretending to condemn what it flagrantly wallows in. Plus it's slow, ugly and boring.

I'm not a big fan of the seedy underbelly of exploitation cinema, tbh. I've seen a lot of it, but have few favorites that fall into categories like 'torture porn', 'extreme horror' or '70s exploitation'. There are certain visions and attitudes that I just can't enjoy, and they seem all but inescapable in certain subgenres. Wanton cruelty, misogyny, prolonged torture & rape, brutal nihilism: these things are almost always dealbreakers for me, unless distanced by means of camp (thinking of HGL's Blood Feast and the Findlay's Her Flesh films, for example).

but more importantly what do you think of rob zombie's woolite commercial

that, and the parents solemnly emptying the dead kids' dressers

Dan, you need to watch Testament. It's basically about solemnly dealing with inevitable horror. I was just skipping through clips on YouTube (the whole thing is available in sections) and feeling very intensely overwhelmed by the remembrance of certain scenes (a mother quietly sewing her dead daughter up in her bedsheets, LUKAS HAAS IN THE SINK). No one can tell me this isn't horror!!

I did not realize Rob Zombie directed that, but I'm completely unsurprised. Which is the opposite reaction I had to seeing that commercial in prime time.

I'd say the problem today is an overreliance on a certain kind of jumpy post-Mtv editing and color treatment ... that tries really hard to be cool/edgy ... rather than scary ..., and especially a lazy fallback on loud booms and cracks and jumpscares... horror trailers almost completely rely on loud cracking noises and lame Korn aesthetics

yeah this. the scratchy film, twitchy fonts and industrial tones approach is absolutely THEE WORST thing about contemporary horror aesthetics

yeah, I hate that shit

I'm not a Cannibal Holocaust defender and never have been (unless I'm forgetting something). The animal cruelty is bad enough, but I find the whole thing infuriatingly hypocritical, pretending to condemn what it flagrantly wallows in. Plus it's slow, ugly and boring.

hmm.. sry baout that then. Maybe your were playing devil's advocate, or maybe I'm completely mistaken!

lol nu-metal horror

speaking of which: no-one bothered to nominate either of Insane Clown Posse's movies (both of which could be considered "horror" i suppose).

nu-metal horror is only horror in it being an extremely unpleasant aesthetic experience

anyone see the lordi movie?

ha no, it was in my netflix queue but I think it expired