My math needs some work. Twenty one years ago was 1991; the Jays had a couple of pretty successful years after that.
― clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2012 21:46 (eleven years ago) link
Uh hay u guys, the average win % for MLB teams is .500 -- competitive balance!
― Où sont le Lord Custos d'antan? (Leee), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:17 (eleven years ago) link
So for years and years cable companies were just letting baseball teams skate by with small broadcast fees? I don't get where the explosion in money is. It seems like a bubble to me.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:38 (eleven years ago) link
The Royals argument here is coming down more along the lines of punishing players - the Royals lost them because they got six years of major league service at below-market rates and then lost them to teams that were willing to pay market rates.
It's worth remembering that teams get a lot of time with young players before they're free agents - for great players, that's the age 27/28 season, for good players it's often age 31/32, when players are already declining. Outside of a few players (Poooooo-holes, etc.), free agency is a pretty shitty way to build a winning team. And even those players hold the risk of sinking the team they sign with near the end of the contract (Poooooo-holes again).
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
"the royals have the best farm system in baseball right now, what do you think is gonna happen?"
Screw it up! That's because they are the ROYALS! Not because they can't afford them.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:43 (eleven years ago) link
a few years old, but includes the average age of free agents signing long deals: http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/03/longterm_free_a.phppitchers: 31.6hitters: 30.5
those players were drafted at age 17-22, that's a lot of time to be tied up in the minors, on rookie-through-third-year contracts (teams get to decide what to give you out of the goodness of their hearts) and arbitration (which is better but still players much less than they could offering their services openly).
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:44 (eleven years ago) link
if anything is broken about baseball, it's the system that keeps the top-level young talent in the minors to save time/money for the team, IMOBryce Harper is terrible in AAA right now, but the whole game is more interesting if he had been given a real chance of making the team in Spring Training
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
Jays are probably the one example of a team that is really really screwed currently, but either the Red Sox or the Yankees could fall apart at any time. Having a slew of money /= running a team well as 80s/early 90s Yankees proved all too well.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:46 (eleven years ago) link
the Red Sox are in the process of falling apart already
the history of teams that had the highest payroll (or close) is pretty interesting, especially when you look at how many fucked it up with their signings (ie Albert Belle in Baltimore, everyone the Rangers signed before Tom Hicks went broke, etc.)
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:48 (eleven years ago) link
worth pointing out, too, that major league owners have no real interest in instituting a cap right now, since even the fuckin' Pirates are profitable
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:49 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm
thought I'd seen one that goes all the way back through the '90s, but I can't find it
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:52 (eleven years ago) link
Harper's a poor example though. I mean they are pushing him about as hard as a prospect can be reasonably pushed at the age of 19. I guarantee you if the Nats thought he was actually really ready, he wouldn't be in AAA right now--they'd be selling tickets off him in DC instead.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:52 (eleven years ago) link
Big sigh, Jays fans:
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team/1993
(You can get payrolls back to '88 there.)
― clemenza, Saturday, 14 April 2012 22:55 (eleven years ago) link
Having a slew of money /= running a team well as 80s/early 90s Yankees proved all too well.
the yankees didn't really bust out the big money until the early 2000s
they went from $93m in 2000 to $153m in 2003 to $184m in 2004 to $208m in 2005. that year, only one team spent *half* as much -- the red sox at $124m. they spent $20m more than the indians, brewers, pirates, royals and rays combined. it can't buy you a world series, but spending twice as much as everyone else can definitely buy you a playoff berth.
the angels and rangers seem to be catching up money-wise now that steinbrenner's heirs have reined in payroll (or at least not let it continue to grow). but i could be a pretty good gm with that kind of money too.
― mookieproof, Saturday, 14 April 2012 23:40 (eleven years ago) link
the Rangers' payroll jumped a bunch this year because of Darvish and players hitting arbitration, it was pretty impressive to take $55 and $70mn payrolls (IIRC) to the Series back to back
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 14 April 2012 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
NFL needs a Chinese-American QB
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, April 14, 2012 3:48 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark
RIP timmy chang
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Saturday, 14 April 2012 23:52 (eleven years ago) link
baseball's competitive balance is fine right now but i highly doubt that it's sustainable. the new cba is going to be a big step in making it so--watching the sox and the yanks scramble to get their salaries in order this past offseason was the major signal that things are going to be different from now on.
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 15 April 2012 03:40 (eleven years ago) link
http://randomoverload.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/38f51f42se-traveler.jpg
― pplains, Sunday, 15 April 2012 03:44 (eleven years ago) link
he throws a football about as well as a 19th century Chinaman.
― onibaba o'reilly (Eisbaer), Sunday, 15 April 2012 04:17 (eleven years ago) link
people aren't talking about whether baseball...should even be played
I'm talking about it, because it's boring as all fuck.
nope, it's just you
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 15 April 2012 04:56 (eleven years ago) link
I find football almost unwatchable on TV. It's boring as fuck, five seconds of action followed by 40 seconds of nothing followed by 2 minutes of commercials.
and that "action" is boring. It's the sport this country deserves.
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 15 April 2012 05:02 (eleven years ago) link
Please sum up the strategy in baseball beyond versatile pitchers and power hitters, because outside of those things I don't see any. Football is all strategy from kickoff to the final tick of the clock.
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 15 April 2012 16:29 (eleven years ago) link
There's more shit going on in basketball, hockey, and soccer than in baseball. I'd put tennis on baseball's level strategy-wise, but even tennis is more fun to watch because it's person vs. person.
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 15 April 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
hahaha have you got about 25 years?
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 15 April 2012 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
we could talk about pitch selection for 5
beyond versatile pitchers and power hitters
I get the fact that the best pitchers can game the batter, and that's the most interesting aspect of baseball. Beyond that, though, it boils down to "should I or should I not attempt to steal third?"
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 15 April 2012 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
we'll just have to agree that I have no idea what you're talking about.
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 15 April 2012 16:44 (eleven years ago) link
also, the "worst" major-league pitchers 'game' the best batters all the time, which is why hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports.
― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 15 April 2012 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
I'm constantly amazed at the reaction times fielders have on the ball - to know in the split second after the ball leaves the bat where you need to be is something.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Sunday, 15 April 2012 16:59 (eleven years ago) link
I've probably got a lifetime .400 record at bat and I suck.
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 15 April 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
.400 ops?
― mookieproof, Sunday, 15 April 2012 17:16 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, but my sample size is really small. One season of little league and some intramural games in college.
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 15 April 2012 17:18 (eleven years ago) link
How many runs created per 27 outs, JF? What's your BABIP? WAR? Win Probability Added? We need a fuller picture.
― clemenza, Sunday, 15 April 2012 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
really good point made above, about how the Yankees massive payroll isn't necessarily an advantage because they can sign the best players (as it's rare to get a top 5 player in free agency - most players peak in their 5th or 6th season of team control), but rather because the bad contracts won't kill them. I remember reading something about how the Brewers could have been a force from 2005 until now, had they not signed Jeff Suppan to a long-term contract. Because one thing led to another, and another, and suddenly they couldn't afford certain players, etc. etc. In about 2 or 3 years A-Rod is going to be the worst contract in baseball and the Yankees will still go on. But if you think high payroll automatically means success, look at what's happened to the Cubs (the Yankees, with their astronomical payroll, are an exception)
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Monday, 16 April 2012 14:08 (eleven years ago) link
Goddell is by far the worst here of a trio of fools.
― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Monday, 16 April 2012 15:53 (eleven years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Thursday, 19 April 2012 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Friday, 20 April 2012 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
Remarkably uninteresting results. How odd that it should be so.
― Aimless, Friday, 20 April 2012 03:02 (eleven years ago) link
i can't make a logical case for it but goodell is not getting his due
― call all destroyer, Friday, 20 April 2012 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
logical case: head trauma is leaps and bounds a more important issue than steroids (big source of Selig's bad rap) and Goodell actively ignored the issue, tried to move to an 18-game season while talking about player safety and has now taken to demonizing the kind of players the NFL built a lot of popularity around rather than making a real attempt to fix the systemic issues?
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 20 April 2012 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
goodell is evil, but such is the nature of his position
the other dudes more obviously suck, unless you're a shareholder
― mookieproof, Friday, 20 April 2012 03:19 (eleven years ago) link
well the difference between head trauma and steroids is that you really can't get rid of the former, but I don't want to defend Goodell and his intentional misunderstanding of the issue
― you can expect punches, kicks and even worse (frogbs), Friday, 20 April 2012 03:32 (eleven years ago) link
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7881228/players-nfl-commissioner-roger-goodell-toughest-critics
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:16 (eleven years ago) link
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1085526/Animation15.gif
― pplains, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:17 (eleven years ago) link
the fact that Goodell got only 3 votes in this makes me want to puke
― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:49 (eleven years ago) link
give him time, bill
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:54 (eleven years ago) link
Goodell is Mussolini; Selig and Stern are Hitler and Stalin. all three are contemptible assholes who never should be allowed to hold any responsible office, but it's a question of degree of assholery.
― Nu Metal is the best music there is, the rest is pussy shit. (Eisbaer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:54 (eleven years ago) link
or to be less inflammatory -- Goodell is Mitt Romney; Selig and Stern are Gingrich and Santorum.
― Nu Metal is the best music there is, the rest is pussy shit. (Eisbaer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
goodell is doing a pretty bang up job imo. new cba was solid work.
― Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
I loathe the man. I am happy they got a deal done so we didnt miss a season (that would have been a nitemare) but he really sucks. Making one guy judge, jury and executioner is a total joke.
― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 19:04 (eleven years ago) link