Guns n Roses: Critical Rehab

cinderella had plenty of double-guitar stones indenture

i don't know cinderella at all! like i said i'm not real knowledgeable about this music.

i think of AC/DC, Van Halen and Aerosmith as the 3 big transitional hard rock bands that bridged the '70s and '80s, obviously all of them were a little goofy and cartoony in their on way, but less fluffy than the 'hair metal' bands that they influenced, and GNR seems kind of like a throwback to their heyday (maybe in production/playing more than persona) than of a piece with their peers.

yeah esp by the 2nd album cinderella got real stonsey.....

GNR's snare wasn't as gated than the snare on Poison records. Also, they didn't play pointy-headstock guitars with crunchless sustain. And their singer was a scraggy, scuzzy lech. Plus, they were the American answer to the Faces.

the Replacements were the American answer to the Faces

Mmmmaybe...but less because Westerberg ain't Stewart and more because Mars ain't Jones.

g'n'r toned down the glam but jesus it was still an aquanet-drenched band of guys named axl, iggy, slash and duff. and it's not like hair bands weren't already giving a high sheen to '70s signposts.

lol izzy i mean

more because Mars ain't Jones

and Adler is? gtfo

and maybe the drums weren't AS gated as poison's, but they're still fucking late '80s as can be. People are ignoring the commonalities because G'n'R didn't revel in some of the flaws of hair metal. Like saying Children of Men isn't a sci-fi movie because, yeah it's a dystopian movie set in the future based around a scientific fantasy, but they don't call money "spacebucks."

when GNR broke they were definitely teasing up their hair and dressing more glam, then it seemed like once they got big Axl went for the longhair/headband look...cfe: how he looks in welcome to the jungle vs. paradise city videos

maybe it's actually kind of common for the tail end of an era to define it, the way the 2nd half of the Beatles catalog has become way more culturally ubiquitous than the 1st half.

g'n'r was a strong enough band, musically and aesthetically, to influence their peers, but let's not pretend their peers weren't named tracii and bret.

and Adler is? gtfo

I'd definitely say Adler's closer, yeah. He gets the mid-tempo swing/swagger happening in a way that Mars never really could. Also, for the faster stuff, Adler lays back like Jones, whereas Mars is on top of/ahead of the beat -- that's not a bad thing by any means, and it was great for the 'mats, but a solid Jones disciple it does not Mars make.

But Cinderella were practically AC/DC copyists!

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:18 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah I shouldn't have said Cinderella, they mixed it up a bit. "Shake Me" is definitely hair though.

yeah, i don't get the "sleaze rock" / "hair metal" distinction at all. guns 'n roses kept their sound gritty & raw, made the connections to stuff like skynyrd, aerosmith, the stones, the dolls and hanoi rocks a little bit more explicit, but the basic approach isn't all that different from early motley crue or w/e. m@tt otm.

g'n'r was a strong enough band, musically and aesthetically, to influence their peers, but let's not pretend their peers weren't named tracii and bret.

― da croupier, Thursday, April 12, 2012 3:34 PM (53 seconds ago) Bookmark

GNR was influential on later bands sure but their peers? i mean i guess Dr. Feelgood and Slave To The Grind were in some way responses to the post-Appetite landscape but Guns came along so late in the game that i feel like the other big bands were probably looking at them more like competition than an influence.

early motley crue isn't hair imo

motley crue switched styles 2 or 3 times depending on whom they wanted to rip off

you're making a rather limited definition of "influence" there, sd.

didn't motley crue and GnR pretty much hate each other? i think like somebody pulled somebodies pants down at the troubador or some shit i can't quite remember

yeah dude, GET IN THE RING MOTHERFUCKER

i guess, it was kind of a tangent to the main point of your post anyway so nevermind (xpost)

I definitely think Patience influenced bands-- guys we need an acoustic ballad

early motley crue isn't hair imo

i'd say hair went through stages.

also, i think it's weird to talk about who "should" be in the R&RHOF as a product of what we happen to like (unless, you know, we're members of the voting body). i think that kiss and the red hot chili peppers make sense as inductees because they were hugely popular and influential and are well-remembered. they helped shape and keep alive the general american sense of what "rock and roll" is all about - as embodied by the hard rock cafe, harley ads and dive bar playlists.

The Monkees aren't in the hall of fame either and they have more good songs than KISS

maybe now that one is dead the hall will forgive them for being pre-fab

yeah totally. i look at the HOF and the Grammys and other things like that as, well, of course they're kind of silly and not wholly merit-based, but you can at least pretty easily triangulate what the canon they're trying to form is, and critique or comment on how close or far off the mark they get. (xpost to contenderizer)

didn't motley crue and GnR pretty much hate each other? i think like somebody pulled somebodies pants down at the troubador or some shit i can't quite remember

Did you deliberate quote Axl Rose from "Welcome to the Jungle" there? According to Nick Kent's "the Dark Stuff": "FUCKIN' MOTLEY CRUE GAVE FUCKIN' STEVIE FUCKIN' AJAX TO SNORT! FUCKED HIM UP!!"

Oops, that was a quote from "Paradise City"-- my mistake

This showed up on Longform today:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=62

that article paints a charming portrait of Axl Rose, at least at the beginning.

"Who cares?" Ian McLagan of the Faces said when asked about Rose's slight.

i don't care!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17721376

saying he felt neither "wanted or respected".

So is this Brit grammar, bad BBC grammar, or misquoting Axl's bad grammar? Because if Axl doesn't know it's neither/nor, not neither/or, I'll be very sad.

Bad BBC grammar. Pretty sure that, for all his faults, Axl can speak English proper.

I was just listening to "One in a Million." In my mind, the controversy about the lyrics were totally overblown, but shit, these are still shocking.

yeah, it's pretty hideous. too bad the tune and vocal are so great.

Yeah, it's an acoustic juggernaut, if only the lyrics were different. I read a grip of gnr biographies andeverybody's take onit is different. Duff and slash both purported to accept axl's explanation of a fictional narrator for the song, while being embarassed in their private lives and relationships. I think Adler says he believed that axl's http://kkkorner.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/nbomb5.jpg?w=350&h=259 was onlyon referenceto certain kinds of black people.

Huh. Niceautoreplace.

Also, please note that my opinion of adlers opinion is that he should walk off a fucking cliff.

Backstage at a Rolling Stones show in 1989 that GNR and Living Colour were both opening, Rose supposedly approached a visibly pissed Vernon Reid and said, "Hey, I didn't mean that YOU guys were n*ggers!"

Parts of the song that are unassailable:

1,2,1,2,3,4
(Whistling and modulating rhythm guitar)
Guess I needed sometime to get away
I needed some piece of mind
Some piece of mind that'll stay
So I thumbed it down to Sixth and L.A.
Maybe a Greyhound could be my way

and then it gets completely and totally assailable.

and then it launches into

ou're one in a million
Yeah, that's what you are
You're one in a million, babe
You're a shooting star
Maybe someday we'll see you
Before you make us cry
You know we tried to reach you
But you were much too high

which is just basically fucking awesome.

then the telegraph piano and vamping in the last minute or so of the song.

God, that fucking hillbilly chickenshit.

Oh yeah, here from 4:37 - 4:57

http://youtu.be/r_2jSPQYlLY

beachville otm, the rest of the song is so fucking good that i get so mad he had to add that happy horseshit to ruin it

Was this the last E-grade Christgau gave?

G N' R Lies [Geffen, 1988]
Axl's voice is a power tool with attachments, Slash's guitar a hype, the groove potent "hard rock," and the songwriting not without its virtues. So figure musical quality at around C plus and take the grade as a call to boycott, a reminder to clean livers who yearn for the wild side that the necessary link between sex-and-drugs and rock-and-roll is a Hollywood fantasy. Anyway, this band isn't even sex and drugs--it's dicking her ass before you smack up with her hatpin. (No wonder they want to do an AIDS benefit.) "One in a Million"--"Immigrants and faggots/They make no sense to me/They come to our country/And think they'll do as they please/Like start some mini-Iran/Or spread some fucking disease/They talk so many goddamn ways/It's all Greek to me"--is disgusting because it's heartfelt and disgusting again because it's a grandstand play. It gives away the "joke" (to quote the chickenshit "apologies" on the cover) about the offed girlfriend the way "Turn around bitch I've got a use for you" gives away "Sweet Child o' Mine." Back when they hit the racks, these posers talked a lot of guff about suicide. I'm still betting they don't have it in them to jump. E

"Anyway, this band isn't even sex and drugs--it's dicking her ass before you smack up with her hatpin."

wtf