can mods change the thread title to "Nunez on Composition"?
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:22 (twelve years ago) link
if you care where the elements of your composition come from, then it isn't a composition. got it. i learn something new every day.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:24 (twelve years ago) link
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_U4Lhuoqw-zI/S_Pt4ptBYwI/AAAAAAAAAVg/mnNV8FcqAu4/s320/warning-brain-explosion-zone.png
― Hey Jude, don't make it BAD MENTAL HEALTH (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:27 (twelve years ago) link
lol hurting
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:27 (twelve years ago) link
Nunez is on some platonic/geirbot shit here
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
"if you care where the elements of your composition come from, then it isn't a composition."you can still care, like if you made a recipe for a cake, you'd probably want some really nice, locally sourced samples for the ingredients, but the cake should still work with supermarket grocery samples.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
http://covers.openlibrary.org/w/id/590639-L.jpg
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:37 (twelve years ago) link
i think a bunch of rap guys did this already
― Mississippi Butt Hurt (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
like if you made a recipe for a cake, you'd probably want some really nice, locally sourced samples for the ingredients, but the cake should still work with supermarket grocery samples.
you have never baked a cake and I claim my $5
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
I think a bunch of posters said that already
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
does cornbread count?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:42 (twelve years ago) link
xposti think you're a buttface already
― Mississippi Butt Hurt (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:42 (twelve years ago) link
so to extend the baking metaphor, hip-hop is like a cake made out of cookie crisp or something. The little cookies are already baked!
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:43 (twelve years ago) link
btw jiffy still tastes pretty good next to the scratch-built cornbreads. just sayin.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:43 (twelve years ago) link
orig poster wld have been better off leaving 'compositional' out of it altogether and saying 'Artists that have used samplers as an interesting tool in a non-groove-oriented way' or something.
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:45 (twelve years ago) link
or something indeed.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:46 (twelve years ago) link
"hip-hop is like a cake made out of cookie crisp or something."
cookie crisp cake sounds amazing!but dr dre would pay krusteaz to make generic cookie crisp to avoid paying the cookie crisp corporation $...
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:49 (twelve years ago) link
also he would market bass-heavy, overpriced spoons to eat this cake with.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:50 (twelve years ago) link
EATS by Dr. Dre
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:51 (twelve years ago) link
you're not going to endear your way out of this one with humor
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:51 (twelve years ago) link
xp Or just "Nerdy white people that have used samplers"
― And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:52 (twelve years ago) link
humor won't save you now. we want to hear more about the wonders of musical composition.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:53 (twelve years ago) link
haha x-post
i, for one, would like to know more about how editing isn't an element of composition.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:54 (twelve years ago) link
not really editing so much as editorializing. are you recomposing a cake, or arranging it in such a way as to proclaim, "damn i really like this cake! A+"
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:58 (twelve years ago) link
have you ever actually listened to Fuck Tha Police or All in the Same Gang or or or I can't even
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 18:59 (twelve years ago) link
at least w/r/t to the 1000s of samples P.E. layered to oblivion, that seems pretty solidly compositional. you don't agree?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:01 (twelve years ago) link
I get the impression no one subscribes to your arbitrary distinction between editing and composing
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:03 (twelve years ago) link
I mean the Bomb Squad's method of "composing" was to put five guys in a room, each on a different sampler/instrument, and then have them "edit" their parts together live
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:04 (twelve years ago) link
if only we could get back to talking about sampling and birdsong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rKjOR-4964
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:11 (twelve years ago) link
i'm not sure what you're saying -- that the fact that they do it live doesn't make it compositional? i don't think that's necessarily true.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:11 (twelve years ago) link
S- isn't going to come back is he? He just dropped this turd on us and ran away.
― And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:13 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.amazon.com/Loiseau-R-A-I-1950/dp/B00491PFLA
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:14 (twelve years ago) link
that the fact that they do it live doesn't make it compositional?
that editing - in the Bomb Squad's case live, unscripted editing - is a fundamental act of composition
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:15 (twelve years ago) link
Sure that's why Teo Macero is as much a composer of early electric Miles as anyone
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:16 (twelve years ago) link
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Sprad/Hildegard_Westerkamp_camel_hi-res.jpg
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:16 (twelve years ago) link
http://soundcloud.com/pedro-rocha/hildegard-westerkamp-cricket
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:18 (twelve years ago) link
the scenario re: bomb squad described seems to place more importance on the manipulation rather than the samples itself, which is in alignment with the composition/editorialization distinction. i'm not sure what the mechanical details of editing have to do with it.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:20 (twelve years ago) link
John Kongos
― 1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:23 (twelve years ago) link
Artists that have used samples as a compositional toolhttp://imgs.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/parenting/2010/08/04/costco_sample320x272.jpg
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:24 (twelve years ago) link
love that Kongos track! really probably is the first pop song built out of a loop isn't it? good thing it's a cool song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lm0N4YCkgk&feature=related
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:26 (twelve years ago) link
the scenario re: bomb squad described seems to place more importance on the manipulation rather than the samples itself,
no this is just wrong, it's the combination and interplay of the two that makes the material work. the samples chosen reflect the lyrical/political focus of the group. of COURSE a band focused on black power politics is going to sample James Brown, for example, even if, say, "The Grunt" is not an explicitly political song. But those samples, like the opening sax blare of "The Grunt", were all edited and recontextualized.
I'm gonna stop arguing about this now
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
It is cited in the Guinness Book of Records as being the first song to have used a sample,[citation needed] however, according to the sleeve note of the CD reissue of the Kongos album, it is actually a tape loop of African drumming, and the use of tape loops and instruments using prerecorded samples such as the Mellotron and Optigan were well established by this time.
This is wrong - see: Simon & Garfunkel's "Cecilia", which is also built around a percussion tape loop. I dunno if "El Condor Pasa" would be considered "sampling", since Simon just took an existing backing track and sang over it, can't remember if they added other stuff or not...
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:31 (twelve years ago) link
seems ridiculous to assert that the first "sample" predates the invention of actual samplers
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:34 (twelve years ago) link
you're ridiculous! get back to nature shakey
is it a composition if all the person does is stick a microphone into a pond? what if it sounds like it's a composition you wouldn't have heard otherwise? wow!
http://www.esnips.com/displayimage.php?album=1511125&pid=12071166
^^ don't think you've listened until you've hit about 5 minutes in, I've played this track for hours some nights
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
you're very right that many pop songs built out of loops before kangos, many people just assume sample inherently means appropriative
simon & garfunkel = self-sampling pioneers with that revolutionary 'save the life of my child' song
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:37 (twelve years ago) link
"is it a composition if all the person does is stick a microphone into a pond?"
yes.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:38 (twelve years ago) link
if bomb squad is reproducing and recontextualizing a section of a known work as a means to produce commentary, why isn't that an editorialization? it's a totally valid form of expression.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:39 (twelve years ago) link
love you, seward!
http://www.hughlecaine.com/en/sptape.html
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:42 (twelve years ago) link
Nunez, the way you've selflessly drawn the dogpile away from the OP is valiant.
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 19:48 (twelve years ago) link