the most important election of your lifetime: 2012 american general election thread

so should I try to retain my VA registration until November despite probably living the whole year in MA so my vote will matter more for the presidency or should I register in MA so I can vote for Elizabeth Warren?

ma, virginia prob won't turn the election

Trying to think of how this scenario compares to '08. Romney seems more hardened in his beliefs than McCain. Not sure how that plays out.

I'm not sure how/if/when beliefs enter into any of this

lol, isn't the n*rr*tive for Mittens that he has no beliefs? as it would be for Bam if his followers were sentient.

If he's actually properly got the nomination now, I wouldn't be surprised to see him down in Zuccotti Park the evening talking to the plain folks.

there is pretty good evidence for the statement 'romney has no real beliefs' outside of possibly mormonism

Well, maybe I could say instead that he presents a more hardened stance in his rhetoric.

btw I think the number of ppl susceptible to "the most important election of your lifetime" has decreased a tad this cycle, haven't seen it anywhere.

Its importance has increased to "most important election since 1860."

Each candidate believes in his own will to power as the will of the universe.

let me guess, Dan: Maddow?

santorum, actually

Romney has a pretty constant core belief, but it's not the kind that will endear you to voters because it's so narrow.

is it the "I should be president" thing?

not really, but that's an offshoot of his "free market i am a business man and basically a little god" mentality.

Also the victimization issue that people were talking about on the other thread. McCain didn't embody this as much. This campaign seems like it will be more paranoid.

romney def believes in the power of business consulting but he's actually kinda bad at being cocky

awesome, i can be first to say

Good Luck, USA

"I am the only person who sees clearly that America's hair is on fire! That is why I feel such urgency to be your president."

"we're sorry senator, you're not allowed to abort your candidacy -- you'll need to carry it to full term"

(xpost) Gingrich may have started the 1860 phrase and Santorum picked up on it, I dunno.

And so now we have Newt Gingrich insisting that 2012 "is the most important election since 1860." And some in the punditocracy go even further; according to columnist E. J. Dionne, "Everyone agrees that the 2012 election will be a turning point involving one of the most momentous choices in American history."

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php?option=com_flexicontent&view=items&id=33338:the-greatest-post-in-all-our-lifetimes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-27-point-gender-gap-that-could-decide-the-election/2012/04/10/gIQAlm5E8S_blog.html?wprss=rss_ezra-klein

A wide gender gap underlies the current state of the race. Romney is up eight percentage points among male voters but trails by 19 among women.

2008 gap wuz 13 points

This year has made it pretty clear that the republican party views women as second class citizens, I'm surprised it is not more than 19 points.

the Democratic Party only views non-millionaire women as second-class citizens

Ashley Judd 4 Prez imo

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/04/cain-women-gender-gap-romney-obama.html

men vs. other people

Well, hell _is_ other people, ya know, as the many other people in Cain's life have no doubt proven to him thru litigation of harmless actions and jokes

Romney behind the scenes at Fox

btw I think the number of ppl susceptible to "the most important election of your lifetime" has decreased a tad this cycle, haven't seen it anywhere. Maybe just reserved for use by cable idiots now.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:44 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a putative historian on the internet-talk-show annex of NRO, the hoover institution presents uncommon knowledge with peter robinson, pulled this one a few months ago, cuz this election is america's great choice between Administration & Liberty. i am leaning liberty but idk what if i got sick.

i dunno, the election of 1864 was p. important too

http://i42.tinypic.com/2h890kn.jpg

campaign's not over until someone cries holding a doll iirc

doll is in the hospital iirc

what's going on over there on the right

Five Republicans have filed the necessary papers and $500 fee to qualify for the June 26 Utah presidential primary election, but with Rick Santorum dropping out of the race Tuesday, only four will be on the ballot.

Or possibly three.

Newt Gingrich’s check bounced.

Bah, here's the URL: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/53886982-90/utah-romney-gingrich-campaign.html.csp

well he does have a decent chance of winning your state

latest Elon poll on our anti-gay marriage prop shows 61% opposed - if we don't pass the bill California did I will mail the crow directly to you

The Elon poll doesn't screen out non-voters though - the most recent PPP poll that is a voter poll is a bit more pessimistic:

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/03/north-carolinians-support-but-dont-understand-marriage-amendment.html

(though there's still room for a little optimism there if the anti-Amendment One can get the message across before May, and the end of the contested GOP primary season will also help, perhaps)

yeah full gay marriage is nowhere close to being legalized in any southern state, but looking at those results 40% of 18-29 y/os in north carolina are for it + 16% for civil unions, which highlights the 'we just gotta wait for old people to die' solution

alternatively we could take away peoples votes after age 50 maybe

Here's to hoping. Meanwhile, in this story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/magazine/republicans-who-supported-gay-marriage.html?_r=1&hp

Some (sad) roffles:

I’ve had a few conversations with Long, trying to understand what harm they think they are defending marriage from. In one conversation I recounted my own classic wedding at the Holy Name of Jesus church, and wondered how somebody else’s less conventional marriage could diminish the joy of it.

“Well, I don’t think it hurts anybody,” Long replied, “but I think a society has to have certain standards, and since the beginning of time, marriage has been between a man and a woman.” Marriage, he elaborated, is about children. “You’re not going to procreate children with same-sex couples.”

I told him that would be news to my daughters’ school classmates, the ones with two moms or two dads. And by the way, we don’t prohibit elderly, infertile or just plain procreation-averse couples from marrying.

“I know plenty of gay couples, O.K.?” he snapped back.

Pobrecito.

good morning!

gawker's "fox mole" has been found and fired w/in 24 hours damn

Shit, that was quick. I'm disappointed.

uh surely that was expected

perhaps even desired

ie, you're more likely to get a job somewhere else for being FIRED FROM FOX rather than just being an employee of Fox

http://gawker.com/5901100/i-am-the-fox-mole-and-im-still-here

Just about to post that link. Yeah, as of 13:54 Eastern, dude's still at their desk.

;-)

After rereading Ryan’s speech, I went back to Sarah Palin’s 2008 convention address. Perhaps, I thought, this is how these speeches always are. But Palin’s criticisms, agree or disagree, held up. “This is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform — not even in the state Senate.” True. She accused Obama of wanting to “make government bigger” and of intending to “take more of your money.” That’s not how the Obama campaign would have explained its intentions, but the facts are the facts, and they did have plans to grow the size of government and raise more in tax revenues. Palin said that “terrorist states are seeking nuclear weapons without delay” and “he wants to meet them without preconditions,” which was true enough.

gotta love that last paragraph:

We’ve been conditioned to want to give both sides relatively equal praise and blame, and the fact of the matter is, I would like to give both sides relatively equal praise and blame. I’d personally feel better if our coverage didn’t look so lopsided. But first the campaigns have to be relatively equal. So far in this campaign, you can look fair, or you can be fair, but you can’t be both.

so courageous, ezra!

JUST TELL THE FUCKING TRUTH ALL OF THE TIME YOU'RE A JOURNALIST

^^^^^^^^^^^^

We’ve been conditioned to want to give both sides relatively equal praise and blame, and the fact of the matter is, I would like to give both sides relatively equal praise and blame.

This is pretty sad

journalists love to give both sides relatively equal praise and blame so much that it takes one of the most prominent political events/speeches of the year, packed with nearly unprecedented amounts of blatant lies, to shake a few journalists out of their rut and get to mention that paul ryan just shoved a bunch of putrid shit down the throats of anyone unlucky enough to pay attention to him speak

pretty sure Klein was clearing his throat for the sake of newbies. The guy's been dissecting Ryan's budget for the last two years.

doesn't come off as throat clearing at all--he seems genuinely surprised at the level of lying, esp. since he goes back to Palin's speech

yeah, but...I mean, this is the first paragraph of his piece:

The original pitch was for “the five biggest lies in Paul Ryan’s speech.” I said no. It’s not that the speech didn’t include some lies. It’s that I wanted us to bend over backward to be fair, to see it from Ryan’s perspective, to highlight its best arguments as well as its worst. So I suggested an alternative: The true, the false, and the misleading in Ryan’s speech. (Note here that we’re talking about political claims, not personal ones. Ryan’s biography isn’t what we’re examining here though, for the record, I found his story deeply moving.)

An hour later, the draft came in — Dylan Matthews is a very fast writer. There was one item in the “true” section.

and then he goes on to describe how he painstakingly went through the entire speech himself in an attempt to add at least a few more sorta truthy things to it. yeah, he's been critical of ryan and the gop in the past, of course. but i don't think that's just "clearing his throat", i think that's him desperately looking for ways to balance things out a little bit so that next time he sees paul ryan in a hotel lobby he doesn't have to grovel quite so much.

xpost

it would be very awkward in the halls of power if prominent journalists actually told the truth for a day

good luck usa media

Klein's style isn't truculence; he's got the air of a well-intentioned econ grad student. But he certainly hasn't groveled on Chris Hayes' show. And I read the intro here as an attempt to at least try to assuage an audience that's primed to call him part of the liberal media elite.

try to assuage an audience that's primed to call him part of the liberal media elite.

good fuckin luck with that! he's Mr. Journolist.

painstakingly went through the entire speech himself in an attempt to add at least a few more sorta truthy things to it.

I agree with this. Like the grocery list he cites from the Palin speech.

elsewhere David Frum wonders why it can't be 1996 and Ryan can't be Kemp.

this is for morbz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCsGSMze_6Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFEhmF-cSi8

Had no idea Frum had this novel called Patriots out: "America's first black president has just lost re-election. A new leader tries to pull the country out of a terrible recession--only to face a devilish plot from inside his own party."

Isn't there a clip of Nixon playing alongside Duke Ellington at the White House?

Close, not quite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAMm5qn50VA

Reality disconnect #589: "WE BUILT IT! WE BUILT IT! WE BUILT IT! We create the jobs and we drive the economy! Oh yeah, except everything wrong is the President's fault. Cos he's in control of the economy."

Who are the mystery speakers? 'Cause I wanna know. No mention of Hologram Nixon.

Clint will be one, surely.

it's totally gonna be eastwood

"it's the end of the game in America, and we lost. let's invent a new sport we'll be good at."

oh also also have we taken the time to lol @ the genius campaign slogan "We Can Change It"

there are nearly six thousand posts in the thread and it's high season for politics, you hae to load the whole thread to see what you missed if you leave the house for a couple of hours. it is time for a new thread. I don't know what symmetry requires, if anything, but it's time.

Symmetry demands it.

dude, bookmark it, its all the rage. i actually did that for the first time for this thread!

I use bookmarks Scott but it really is time. Bookmarks do not mean the end of starting new threads when one thread is ridiculously long

done!

mods, please...?

Symmetry required it: 2012 american general election thread #2