Britpop : Time For Reevaluation?

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do you think Madchester and the whole Tony Wilson 'wake up America, you're dead' fuelled excitement sweeping the UK in 1990 was actually a much more genuine and likeable statement of 'we're British and we're great' than the Britpop phase?
i do.

stevem (blueski) on Tuesday, 4 March 2003 16:56 (4 years ago)

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full story ( by Steve Sutherland, from Melody Maker, 4th August 1990 ) here:

http://dewit.ca/archs/JD/New_York_Story.html

― pisces, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 17:10 (seventeen years ago) link

The thread title will one day need updated to include Britpop II.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 21:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Trouble about Madchester was that, even though there was some good music, there was also a lot of crap around. Sure, The Stone Roses' debut will always remain a classic. And some great stuff from Charlatans too. On the other hand, Happy Mondays were very, very, very overrated.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 22:13 (seventeen years ago) link

There was a HELL of a lot of crap with Britpop. And the countries music scene still hasn't recovered because of it judging by the state of The NME and these bands in the charts.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 22:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Shed Seven and Northern Uproar did at least have proper tunes with proper verses and choruses. As opposed to Happy Mondays with their "let's just shout something over the backing track" approach.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 22:57 (seventeen years ago) link

oh geirpaws

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 22:59 (seventeen years ago) link

I've said it before, it b'ain't the real Hongro.

― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 23:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Unfair to lump Shed Seven in with that Northern Uproar rabble. I listened to 'Dolphin' earlier although it is labelled 'Dolphin '99' - not sure how much more 'advanced' it is from the original of five years before. I don't like that one they did about The Link tho.

― blueski, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 23:19 (seventeen years ago) link

I've said it before, it b'ain't the real stevem.

― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 23:26 (seventeen years ago) link

That can't be stevem

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 8 March 2007 02:08 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm surprised even Geir liked Northern Uproar. I see Ocean Colour Scene have a new album due. |Those fuckers just wont go away.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 8 March 2007 02:09 (seventeen years ago) link

I turned on the TV and an advert was using a Dodgy song.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 8 March 2007 10:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't like Northern Uproar. I just like Happy Mondays less.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 8 March 2007 10:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Dodgy and Ocean Colour Scene were great though. Great in a 70s softrock way, and you can't get much greater than that, really.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 8 March 2007 10:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Ocean Colour Scene were just an uncalled-for dirty night with Chris de Burgh and Golden Earring.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 8 March 2007 11:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Which would make Dodgy a handjob from Arthur Mullard and Paper Lace.

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 8 March 2007 11:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, to me they sound a lot more like intelligent and musically sophisticated softrock such as ELO, 10cc, Klaatu or Supertramp.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 8 March 2007 12:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Paul Edward Wagemann OTM.

oh, fandangopaws!

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Ocean Colour Scene and Dodgy were awful (staying out for the summer was quite good, but Good Enough was the worst big britpop song of all)

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Good Enough was the worst big britpop song of all

I kinda agree with this (even if it looks like a work of genius next to The Automatic), but it IS by far the worst track on Free Peace Sweet, which if viewed by the objective ears of an impressionable 10 year-old (i.e. ME aged 10) isn't actually all that bad! Many of the songs still hold up strongly today, such as If You're Thinking Of Me, UKRIP, Homegrown and One Of Those Rivers. In fact, it's an album whose second half is immeasurably superior to its first. I suspect most people judged it on Good Enough (ugh) or In A Room (meh).

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Even a ~~stopped clock~~ total cock gives ~~the right time twice a day~~ otm... now & then :-p

― fandango, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:10 (seventeen years ago) link

I LIKE THE BOREDOMS TOO DONT HATE ME

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:10 (seventeen years ago) link

this is where posters like Geir are invaluable; they offer up an unbiased perspective to the sort of music that the average ILMer would shun out of hand.

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:13 (seventeen years ago) link

"unbiased"

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:14 (seventeen years ago) link

"invaluable"

― Tom D., Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:19 (seventeen years ago) link

"Geir"

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:20 (seventeen years ago) link

maybe i was wrong about 'unbiased', but he's certainly willing to see the good in dodgy (if not in, say, mbv)

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:22 (seventeen years ago) link

They probably didn't do themselves many favours by (a) their name; (b) Matthew Priest dicking about on too many Buzzcocks episodes but their first three albums were decent enough.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm more willing to see the dodgy in good (xp)

― Tom D., Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:29 (seventeen years ago) link

"music"

― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:32 (seventeen years ago) link

But Marcello can't even defend OCS.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:37 (seventeen years ago) link

If You're Thinking Of Me, In A Room, Making The Most Of, Melodies Haunt You, So Let Me Go Far - all excellent. Dodgy were considered a bit of a boring band back then but I think they'd fit in quite nicely next to the Kooks, The Fratellis etc if they were around these days.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Dodgy were considered a bit of a boring band back then but I think they'd fit in quite nicely next to the Kooks, The Fratellis etc if they were around these days

And so, m'lud, the case for the opposition rests...

― Tom D., Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Quite so, but I also think Dodgy would kick the arses of said bands.

― the next grozart, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:42 (seventeen years ago) link

you mean literally in an actual fight?

― blueski, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:47 (seventeen years ago) link

You see, OCS:

Chris Evans, blokeism, straining sweaty brows, Real Ale guitar solos, king-sized boss waxings, Weller, the wretched Chris de Burgh B-side that is "Day Trip To Bangor" or whatever the bloody song was called, da-DA-di-ya-da-DA da-DA-di-ya-da-DA TFI Fucking Friday with special guests Sharleen Fucking Spiteri and Robbie Bastard Williams...

It's difficult.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Dodgy are like the band with the widest gap between the praise accorded to them in the nme/mm issues i read at the time and their actual quality.And consideing the blethering hype given to everyone and his dog in teh mid 90s that's saying something.

― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 8 March 2007 13:49 (seventeen years ago) link

...but I can remember every song off Free Peace Sweet in an instant! Their songs are at the very least more unforgettable than not. Maybe I listened to them at the optimal age for retention, I dunno.

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 14:42 (seventeen years ago) link

"Good Enough" I used to love the first 3-4 times I heard it. After that I got sick. But the rest of the "Free Peace Sweet" album is still great. Including "In a Room" which has one of the best middle-eights ever composed.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 8 March 2007 23:41 (seventeen years ago) link

And as for OCS, "The Day We Caught The Train" and "You've Got It Bad" are both great pop songs. "The Day We Caught The Train" is the kind of 70s-like complex composition that I really love, and I rank it among the Top 10 songs of the entire Britpop age.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 8 March 2007 23:44 (seventeen years ago) link

deciding factor: 90's Britpop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00's Britpop

― unfished business, Thursday, 8 March 2007 23:49 (seventeen years ago) link

That's not exactly saying much.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 8 March 2007 23:52 (seventeen years ago) link

What is 00s Britpop anyway? I don't consider most of the Nu-Postpunk bands pop at all. Franz Ferdinand and Kaiser Chiefs are both great though.

And, no, Coldplay and Travis aren't Britpop. Great, yes. Britpop, no.

― Geir Hongro, Friday, 9 March 2007 10:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Current Britpop is the slew of shit the NME is still trying to sell us in the ten year wake of the 90s Britpop boom. So really what I'm saying is the UK press latched onto bands like Blur, Oasis and Pulp, found a gap in the market for these bands and created a scene and low and behold it worked. It worked for 3 years pretty much but soon as is with all good things the market got saturated by knock offs versions, poor follow up albums, media overexposure and a general trend for different music.Cue NME burying their heads in the sand: "This is awful! Let's pretend it's not happening! British guitar music is the only thing that sells this paper. It's our bread and butter, so let's get ourselves down the Hope and Anchor and see what we can dig up." And so off they go searching for some kind of Britpop holy grail - a band or scene that will once again make their paper look trendy again. And they come back with Terris, the Klaxons, the Coral and Tiger and invent microscopic non-genres in the vain hope that one of these bands will blow up and become huge. And sometimes it works - seemingly dull and unadventurous bands peddling out standard guitar/bass/drum sounds still shift a few papers among the nation's population of 19 year olds. Pete Doherty is the new Liam Gallagher, Kaiser Chiefs are the new Blur. Great, NME has succeeded - now let's hope this gravy train keeps going. But there's been something going on in the world outside. Times have changed yet national press and radio stay the same, playing bands with little aural scope who could have come out at pretty much any time from 1975 onwards while in real life it's the American indie bands who are striving for wonderment and experimentation. I wanted to say that there are other innovations happening on British soil that the NME is pretty much just ignoring and was going to use Dubstep as an example. But sadly I don't think the NME could ever take Dubstep very seriously. I was trying to think of some genuinely decent forward-thinking and innovative guitar-based music from the UK in the last 5 years and was very hard pushed.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 11:33 (seventeen years ago) link

I have to review the NME every week :-(

The very fact that the Kaisers are compared to Blur speaks volumes about what a shocking state we've gotten to. The difference in calibre, in experimentation, in quality, in ideas, in EVERYTHING, is absolutely staggering. TKC sound like they've heard that Phil Daniels vocal in Parklife and ditched everything else. Dudes, he wasn't even IN Blur for heaven's sake.

And as for your final point...

...well, we've got Oceansize, Youthmovie Soundtrack Strategies, The Electric Soft Parade, Hood (Outside Closer), Mogwai (their fourth album), The Cooper Temple Clause (until their third-album sell-out), 65 Days Of Static, Elbow, My Computer, good ol' SFA, and Working For A Nuclear Free City, amongst I'm sure several others.

It all depends on what you mean by 'forward-thinking and innovative', but I reckon those above bands fit the bill nicely.

― unfished business, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:24 (seventeen years ago) link

haha "Terris"

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:25 (seventeen years ago) link

not sure why people would be looking at guitar-based music for 'forward-thinking/innovative' generally anyway because of it's age and ubiquity. at least Britain totally sucks at it these years it seems true.

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Haha, Louis I wasn't comparing the Kharzi Chefs to Blur, just saying they're the modern equivalent as far as relative popularity goes.

Your list of alternative bands is good - such a shame though that there are only a handful of these bands out at the moment and they do vary in quality, many of them still riding on Postrock's tatty coattails. People moan about Pitchfork all the time but at least they're actively going out and reporting on music as opposed to the NME who just seem to reach into a lucky-dip bag of demos by shit UK guitar bands and write tired patronising hyperbole about their choice, slap a sticker on the front of the album and it sells a million copies. Across the pond at least you've got the whole Noise/psych scene and freakfolk and other bands who don't really fit into a category but are at least trying to do something a bit different - the indie scene in the States is strikingly healthy compared to the zero-track-minded gumph coming out in the UK.

― the next grozart, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:39 (seventeen years ago) link

i'm not sure we're not very good at dance music, pop music or (postpost)modern art these days either.

― blueski, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:44 (seventeen years ago) link

why people would be looking at guitar-based music for 'forward-thinking/innovative' generally anyway because of it's age and ubiquity.

The same thing is sadly happening with dance music. It's not a fresh-faced exciting youngster anymore either.

During the britpop era all the best uk bands were making dance music. None of the Britpop bands made an album as good as Leftism.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 9 March 2007 12:45 (seventeen years ago) link

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