New Order:Sublime or Ridiculous?

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Douglas - there was supposed to be a box-set on the way. A companion piece to JD's 'Heart and Soul', but it got shelved IIRC.

― Dr. C, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I think the box set was postponed when they discovered they were writing new material rather than compiling a retrospective. now that Get Ready is out of the way (last single off it only a couple of months ago) we may yet see it. perhaps this year.

― Alan Trewartha, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Douglas Apart from Dead or Alive and a few hi nrg tracks from the mid 80s can`t think of anyone who tried to copy Blue Monday. That whole "Blue monday=seminal dance record" music press thang always struck me as a bit of a myth. It seems to me that very few acts actually cite that record as an influence except for maybe the Chemical Brothers or Paul van Dyke and what`s more it wasn`t particularly innovative..clearly just a Moroder rip off in the first place. Records like "Fascist Groove Thang" and Yazoos "Don`t Go" were better and now unfortunately overlooked. Does anyone think they can justify the Blue Monday myth without saying it sounds great in a club; frankly it does, but there has to be more to the argument.

― Marty, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Divine ripped it off too o course. The Pet Shop Boys always say they cursed/blessed Blue Monday when it came out too. You could even argue that the Cure's The Forest was a misguided attempt.

But on the whole you are right, not as influential as people write/say. esp as the hi-nrg stuff that BM rips off was already out there, just less popular.

― Alan Trewartha, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Attitude wise Blue Monday was important because it was an indie act saying "Yes dance music is crucial". Indie acts had done this before and would again but rarely with quite the same impact. In other words its importance was not really to the 'dance' genre, or perhaps its importance is overrated because it's written about from an indie perspective. I wasnt listening at the time so this is guesswork!

― Tom, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

You could even argue that the Cure's The Forest was a misguided attempt.

Most prescient of Robert, then, since that came out two, three years previously to "Blue Monday." Further proof of the Cure's genius!

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'm almost 100% positive that Alan meant to say "The Walk" instead of "A Forest". I always understood that that was supposed to be a rip-off of Japan, though. (Having never heard Japan, I can't really confirm or deny.)

― Dan Perry, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Tom is right. Immediately on release it certainly polarized opinion among NO fans. Some people I knew wanted more Movement/Ceremony/Procession type stuff and considered BM as a sell- out. I know some who were so deeply grimcore that they regarded Everything's Gone Green as an unwelcome direction. It was the first NO track featuring a sequencer.

― Dr. C, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I can see why BM has great significance from an indie perspective, in helping to introduce indie kids to electro etc. And certainly a crossover record such as BM (though I doubt it was intended as such) can be as important as something truly ground-breaking-never-before- heard. But BM isn`t just feted in indie circles, in fact its the dance music press which has exalted it; didn`t the band recently win a Muzik award largely on the back of that record? I do think New Order are an important band mind, very important in fact, but not a straight dancefloor-busting choons kind of way.

― Marty, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I think if "Confusion" was New Order's biggest single their relevance to dance culture would be a lot more clear cut.

Also: let it be noted that The Cure (who I nonetheless love) were anything but forerunners to NO. In fact The Cure's doom throughout the eighties was to always be about two years behind the Joy Division/New Order axis.

― Tim, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

New Order and The Cure sound nothing like each other and never did.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I think if "Confusion" was New Order's biggest single their relevance to dance culture would be a lot more clear cut.

Tim, could you expand on this...

― Marty, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

What about "A forest" and "sunrise", they sound pretty damn similar.. I can think of a few others too, its mainly down to the bass playing really.

― Marty, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Even if I bought that parallel (which I don't) "A Forest" came out in 1980 and "Sunrise" came out in 1985.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

What about "A forest" and "sunrise", they sound pretty damn similar..

YES THEY DO. Give in, Dan, give in. 1985 was the switchoff year. "Sunrise" -- Cure tribute. "Inbetween Days" -- New Order tribute. HA!

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Dan I think there was a more of a mutual exchange/sharing of ideas then a straight one ripping off the other situation. Although one could argue that "A Forest" was the Cure`s (more polished) take on the Joy Division sound.

― Marty, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I would argue that "A Forest" was the Cure`s (more rubbish) take on the Joy Division sound.

― DG, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I hear very little Joy Division in "A Forest". The guitar isn't brittle enough, for one thing. (I do see shades of Joy Division in "At Night", though, so the point isn't completely lost.)

― Dan Perry, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Apparently, Peter Hook's mum heard In Between Days on the radio and thought it was a New Order record. Simon Gallup was definitely apeing Hooky...apparently even to the extent of having his bass low- slung during live performances.

― MarkH, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

/me blushes. did mean The Walk. "Let's go for a walk/take me for a walk" "A walk in the forest, all alone". that's my excuse and i'm sticking to it. I don't particularly heart the cure, but you know I was a student once. I even get confused between Echo n Bunnymen and The Cure (I know, I know, but that's how it is)

― Alan Trewartha, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

The sound of the bass playing is similar, but the way the songs are constructed is very, very different. Actually, I find it very interesting because I do see why people say New Order and The Cure sound alike, but I can't agree with them because, despite similarities in the components of many of their aongs, the end results sound completely different to me. The closest New Order has come to writing a Cure song would probably be "The Him" or "Doubts Even Here", while the closest the Cure has come to writing a New Order song is "Inbetween Days".

― Dan Perry, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

And er, All the Way from Technique IS Just Like Heaven (not that it matters tho')

― flowersdie, Monday, 18 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

two months pass...

Thread revival because "Selfish" by side-project "The Other Two" is like one of the coolest songs ever. Talk about it!

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 18 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

And er, All the Way from Technique IS Just Like Heaven

No it's not, because the vocal melody and the chorus are completely different.

― Dan Perry, Thursday, 18 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

two years pass...

This morning I'm listening to a New Order comp. I just realized that, while I consider them to be one of my favorites, in actual practice I barely know any of their songs. They always sound a little unfamiliar, like I'm listening to them for the first time. I think I've put off listening to them in the past because I want to preserve the newness of the songs and the feeling they give me (when I hear them, my stomach knots up -- I don't want that to go away).

It's actually nice that I've managed to keep it fresh for all these years -- but where will it end? There must be a shelf life to this technique if I'm to continue listening to them, even occasionally. And are they truly one of my favorites if I never listen to them? Does New Order get old/the magic wear off, etc?

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Everyone's responses will be different, I guess -- but there was some talk recently about "Bizarre Love Triangle" thanks to that thread revive and even though it's been almost twenty years since I first heard that, the sense of thrill and captivation hasn't left me yet. Their rock side still sounds fresh and alive to me, their digital side still sounds like a hotwire to some sort of future.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Some New Order songs stand as the only musical creations that physically make me feel like I'm standing next to someone I have an immense crush on.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Now that's a lovely way of putting it! Write more about music plz.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Thanks. More confidence boosting first plz.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:44 (nineteen years ago) link

What, that Ken C clown has said nothing about your turns of phrase yet? Beat him.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I think he just likes my hair.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 29 July 2004 14:46 (nineteen years ago) link

If i had to pick my favourite band of all time it would be New Order. Around maybe once a year i dig out all of their records and gorge myself on a New Order-fest that may last several weeks. "Technique", "Low-life", "Power, Corruption & Lies" and "Substance" get played the most. I can't imagine not ever being thrilled by "The Perfect Kiss" or "Temptation", or "Vanishing Point"...(continues like this in a similar vein for the next few hours)

― Neil FC (Neil FC), Thursday, 29 July 2004 15:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Just now:

My boyfriend: "Is this the gays?"
Me: "What? It's New Order."
My boyfriend: "Gay."

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 29 July 2004 15:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Your boyfriend is suppressing his homosexual urges.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 July 2004 15:09 (nineteen years ago) link

What do you think of the Best of/Rest of (I think that's what they're called?) comps? I think I listen to Technique and Substance the most often (still almost never).

xpost - he listens to Dee-Lite.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 29 July 2004 15:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Then it's a very successful suppression!

Said comps are a bit eh -- the box set plus a couple of CDRs from an ILMer are far more cool.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 July 2004 15:12 (nineteen years ago) link

(As is the peerless and glorious Substance, of course.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 July 2004 15:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I have heard of these CDRs.

I need the boxed set! I touch it every time I go to the record store. Have the JD one, though.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 29 July 2004 15:16 (nineteen years ago) link

i thought i was sick of "bizarre love triangle," but i happened to hear it this morning on a mixtape and it bowled me over - as usual.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Bizarre Love Triangle and Temptation make me weak in the knees every time I hear them. It really is like hearing them for the first time every time -- I just stop short of saying "what IS this?"

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Seeing "Temptation" live in 1989 in particular was some kinda revelation.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:37 (nineteen years ago) link

The NO box set is kind of crap. Just buy all of the albums. If you hit up a number of local record stores with used bins, your bound to find all of them eventually. Along with THOUSANDS of copies of republic.

NO was my all time favorite band 2 years ago.. I still think that they still are on paper, but I think I played them out during my pre and post 'get ready' mania. havent been listening to them much as of late.

― bill stevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 29 July 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Am I the only one up in this bitch who prefers Joy Division to New Order?

I'm not saying New Order aren't highly worthy or anything. Just wondering.

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 29 July 2004 19:42 (nineteen years ago) link

I go through periods of listening to nothing but New Order and afterwards I can't listen to them for weeks, even months on end. But when I need something I can rely on, they're always there for me, and I'm always so glad I've found myself back in their arms.

I've often wondered if your strategy can be practically applied, but such restraint I find to be semi-inhuman. Much credit to you if you can do it, though.

― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Thursday, 29 July 2004 19:47 (nineteen years ago) link

ridiculous: REPUBLIC, MOVEMENT

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), February 7th, 2002.

Wow. i can't believe I broadly lambasted Movement as ridiculous. Apologies for that.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 29 July 2004 21:13 (nineteen years ago) link

I posted this on a S&D thread back in Nov, but what the hey:

the mother of all 'portables' go!
------------------------------
note: all discs are mostly chronological by themselves as best I can tell, except the last which is chronological by artist (mostly).

Joy Division 'portable' (78:11)
Digital
Disorder
Insight
New Dawn Fades
She's Lost Control
Shadowplay
Wilderness
Interzone
Transmission
Something Must Break
Dead Souls
Love Will Tear Us Apart (single a-side vers.)
Isolation
A Means to an End
Heart and Soul
Twenty Four Hours
Decades
Love Will Tear Us Apart (Peel Session vers.)
Ceremony (from Still)

(pretty straightforward and tidy, I wanted Ceremony on the end to point the way to the future).

--------------------------------
New Order 'portable' disc1 80:56

Ceremony (re-recorded vers from FAC 33T/Substance)
Temptation (5/87 from Substance)
Blue Monday (12" vers. from Substance)
Confusion (5/87 from Substance)
Thieves Like Us
Sub-culture (Robie remix from Substance)
Perfect Kiss (extended vers. from Substance)
True Faith
1963 (94 edit from Best Of)
Fine Time
Round & Round
Run
Regret

(the first disc in my 'three histories' of New Order. It's my dream Substance disc1, with the singles from Technique and "Regret" tacked on - oh! and 1963 which is not the remix, but just a slightly shorter edit of the original. Oh and I LOVE the "Sub-culture" remix).

--------------------------------
New Order 'portable' disc2 80:38

Everything's Gone Green
Dreams Never End
Age of Consent
Love Vigilantes
ShellShock (12" vers.)
Paradise
Weirdo
Broken Promise
State of the Nation (12" vers.)
Blue Monday 1988
All the Way
Love Less
Guilty Partner
Vanishing Point
Dream Attack
World in Motion (single mix)
World (The Price of Love)
Ruined in a Day

(covers additional singles and favorite album tracks and most of the additional tracks from 'Technique')

--------------------------------
New Order 'portable' disc3 80:51

586
Your Silent Face
Sub-culture (album vers.)
Sunrise
Elegia (album vers.)
As It Is When It Was
All Day Long
Mr. Disco
Spooky
Everyone Everywhere
Young Offender
Avalanche
Crystal (radio edit)
60 Miles an Hour
Close Range
Run Wild
Here to Stay (radio edit)

(essential odds-n-ends and my faves from 'Get Ready')

side order 'portable' New Order side projects 78:04

Electronic - Getting Away With It (extended vers.)
Electronic - Get the Message (album vers.)
Electronic - Idiot Country
Electronic - Reality
Electronic - Tighten Up
Electronic - Feel Every Beat
Electronic - Disappointed (single mix)
Electronic - Forbidden City
Electronic - For You
Electronic - One Day
Electronic - Second Nature
The Other Two - Tasty Fish (album vers.)
The Other Two - Selfish (The Single Mix)
The Other Two - Selfish (That Pop Mix)
Monaco - What Do You Want from Me?
Monaco - Happy Jack

(surprisingly strong, I find I listen to this quite a bit. This disc generously pretends that Revenge never happened! also 'Twisted Tenderness' is absent and the last Other Two album which I haven't even heard. The second Monaco album is ignored because I don't remember anything from it).
-----------------------------

I love these CDs probably more than any non-person thing.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 29 July 2004 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link

I made a 16-disc box set of New Order as a summer project last year (designed like Heart and Soul, except obviously more extensive due to the fact that NO's been around for about 10 times as long as JD were). If I was ever going to burnout on New Order, that would've been the time to do so. I came dangerously close.

― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Thursday, 29 July 2004 21:58 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost way up there:

I like JD and NO equally -- I can't really compare them; they fill completely different roles in my life.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Friday, 30 July 2004 02:51 (nineteen years ago) link

And now that I'm listening to Technique again for the first time in a while...damn. What a band.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 30 July 2004 03:38 (nineteen years ago) link

"Dream Attack" on Technique. Ahhhhhhhh.......I love New Order.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 30 July 2004 03:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Skipping 81 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Haha, Alex, this is the second time you've apologized for that on this thread!

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 24 January 2009 16:58 (fifteen years ago) link

Movement is great, Republic is even better.

No, I'm serious.

― ilxor, Saturday, 24 January 2009 18:13 (fifteen years ago) link

One forgets these things as one ages, alas.

― Alex in NYC, Saturday, 24 January 2009 20:14 (fifteen years ago) link

one year passes...

A google image search for "new order" "gay sperm" is pretty OTM.

― David Allah Coal (sexyDancer), Friday, 17 September 2010 14:54 (thirteen years ago) link

Two Lone Swordsmen named one of their tracks after that famous bass cabinet phrase.

― brotherlovesdub, Friday, 17 September 2010 15:12 (thirteen years ago) link

eleven months pass...

what the hell: New Order gigs this Fall, w/o Peter Hook?!?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/news/20110905_neworder.shtml

― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Monday, 5 September 2011 14:58 (twelve years ago) link

well, for a good cause, so that's nice, and nice the gillian is back too.

― akm, Monday, 5 September 2011 15:18 (twelve years ago) link

playing right here in Brussels - so might be my chance to finally see these guys live.

― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Monday, 5 September 2011 15:29 (twelve years ago) link

one month passes...

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2011/10/10/new-order-peter-saville-posters-paris-brussels/

― piscesx, Tuesday, 11 October 2011 18:12 (twelve years ago) link

The reunited New Order — Bernard Sumner, Stephen Morris and Gillian Gilbert — also released a video statement promoting the sale of the posters, which you can watch below. They do not, however, respond to their surly former bandmate Peter Hook’s recent accusations that they’re actually reuniting for profit and have a future U.S. tour in the works.

...because of course Hook's tour is about charity.

Anyway I presume Spencer has already ordered both of those posters.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 11 October 2011 18:32 (twelve years ago) link

You know, it's odd that the last couple of chapters of New Order live have largely been Gillian-free. And then Hook is out and suddenly Gillian reappears. Hmmm....

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 October 2011 18:35 (twelve years ago) link

Surely they've been seen in the same room before...

― Franz Kappa (S-), Tuesday, 11 October 2011 18:53 (twelve years ago) link

I think I meant maybe more that they really didn't like each other?

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 12 October 2011 17:08 (twelve years ago) link

...because of course Hook's tour is about charity.

Because of course Hook has claimed that he's only playing two gigs and they're just for charity, and not openly said at every stage that he's doing it to earn a living.

― front-man for British post-punk turned pop chart-topper’s, Scritti Polliti (sic), Wednesday, 12 October 2011 23:01 (twelve years ago) link

three years pass...

Stephen Morris ranks the New Order discography...

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/new-order-rank-your-records

― Turrican, Friday, 4 September 2015 03:23 (eight years ago) link

four years pass...

Isolation pic.twitter.com/PJlcHVawvJ
— Paul Quarantine Duane (@MrPaulDuane) May 19, 2020

lol!

― calzino, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 10:53 (three years ago) link

answer to thread q is clearly “yes”

― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 12:51 (three years ago) link

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