We really don't care about theatre do we?

Of course, this is only true if you disregard the technical differences between onstage performance, film and television. As far as I am concerned the differences really are minor technicalities.

In all three media you have scripted dialogue telling a story with actors, costumes, scenery, lighting, incidental music, and so on.

The fact that a camera lens imposes a control over the audience's point-of-view that cannot be utilized in stage performances does not make much difference in my view. Stage direction tries to filter the audience's attention, too, except it uses lighting effects, blocking of actor's movements, and other technical means that are somewhat less effective than a camera. The goal is quite similar.

Theater people are just blinded by their nostalgic love of certain techniques that must be modified or discarded in a filmed setting as opposed to a stage setting. They identify these technicalities with 'theater', abhor the new technicalities of movies and tv, and overlook the overwhelming similarities between all the various forms of the modern theater.

you're making like montage is just another nifty gadget in the film director's toolbox; really it is ESSENTIAL to film, much more so than lighting and blocking is to theatre

xpost

the spatial quality of film and theater are to a large extent opposed.... the camera's "field of vision" is like an upside-down triangle, whereas a conventional stage is a bit the opposite (why it's rare for a theater director to stage a signification action in the back of the stage--harder to ensure that the audience's attention is directed to it). so they pose very different staging problems. i don't quite buy aimless's argument that this means they are different only in the method by which an audience's attention is directed. i think there is a place for ontological speculation....

slocki, it seems to me a hell of a lot of great films were made in the 1930s, and many of them were only a few baby steps away from being filmed stage productions with over-the-shoulder reaction shots and the occassional montage (thank you Sergei) to spice them up.

If montage is as ESSENTIAL as you say it is, then these films would have failed at birth, rather than becoming successful films - which, not coincidentally are still watched, enjoyed and studied today. Montage is just another nifty tool in a director's toolbox. It just happens to be such a useful tool that it gets used a lot.

30s films are usually edited pretty briskly, so it's not simply a matter of using up a reel of film shooting an integral theatrical performance. "montage" doesn't mean soviet montage necessarily--just, y'know, editing bits of film together. all hollywood films are edited together from master shots, medium shots (plan american etc.), and occasionally inserts/close ups at a rate of i dunno one shot every 10-12 seconds. (nowadays it's more like every 5 seconds but we're talking about the 1930s)

i think this is pretty important: "filmed theater" isn't really as simple as that, the fact of it being filmed and edited together in the conventional way transforms the way the story is being told. perhaps the "meaning" is ultimately the same, but i'm not sure that's true or if it even matters so much.

to get "filmed theater" you need to go back to 1895-1910 or so, like the original version of the "wizard of oz" which is basically "selected scenes from the stage play of 'the wizard of oz'"--but as i noted above the spatial aspect of film is such that a stage performance is NECESSARILY transformed if it is to be "faithfully" captured on film. those early films that don't bother with such a transformation are often incomprehensible and usually dismissed as "primtive" (that's another hill of beans or whatever).

some "fixed setup" films do sort of selfconsciously evoke a "theatrical" quality, or even overtly beg comparison to theater: oliveira, etc.--or to "primitive" cinema (angelopoulos). and certain kinds of framing (even outside the context of a long-take style) can evoke theater, "performance" too with fruitful results. but lots of fixed-setup films really don't evoke theater at all. it's impossible to imagine hou or jia films as anything but cinema--the natural settings, natural lighting, etc. are absolutely critical.

anyway yeah so i think cinema can do a lot with "theatricality" and i don't think calling a film "theatrical" is a very convincing slur (unless you're writing in 1905, maybe).

i'm repeating myself and possibly not making sense.\

XPOST

s1ocki, i didn't find aimless's post dismissive. anyways i'm not a film student or anything. i'm not sure about agree/disagree--i don't think i dismissed aimless's post or embraced it fully. i just sort of responded to it.

!!

Seen anything else? New Yorkers, Albee's Seascape?

that's probably it, coupled with the world's general philistinism. I wuv the theatre and wish i went to it more often. The last thing I saw was a monster production of Titus Andronicus before Christmas.

We need a rolling Theatre S/D thread really, but as you all say, nobody cares.

xp i care

Yes, but why? (I'm not being flippant.)

speaking of revivals, though, when I was in LA, I took my grandmother to one of the Reprise! shows, which had great original choreography and housed in a small enough theatre (at UCLA) that the amplification (live orchestra) wasn't overbearing. one of the leads, Tami Tappan Damiano, was moderately impressive too. they also do one-weekend shows with some medium-sized Hollywood types (when I was there - Working, with among others Camryn Manheim).

been stress-testing myself the last month or two: designing lights for one musical (the netflix adaptation starred meryl streep) while appearing as a high school theater teacher in another (the original production starred stephanie hsu) and simultaneously directing a student showcase because all of a sudden i actually do teach high school theater (in a neighboring town). the streep show's done; the hsu show closes this weekend; the school play's next thursday; next friday i start rehearsals as benedick in much ado. not sure yet if i care about theatre, but by the time i am it may be too late.

Benedick!! Love that guy

dang, when do you sleep?!

break legs in Much Ado!

thank you! tbh the only thing rly cutting into my sleep rn is stellaris. everything else just makes me need it.

benedick's speech about change (doth not the appetite alter?) is so major: you're laughing at the character rationalizing so you don't notice shakes has begun preaching straight to you about his core/heart stuff.

barbaric imo to expect actors to print their own scripts. there should be a big clean stack of them on a table when you walk in.

I saw a fantastic production of Much Ado at The Globe a few years ago.. the whole thing set during the Mexican Revolution! What I remember most is the guy who played Benedick was just so good at it that his soliloquies just came upon you without you even realising that he was doing one.. it just felt so natural, like he was just sharing his thoughts with us. Halfway through I'd be like, oh, right, this is a monologue!

Tomorrow we're off to see Vardy vs Rooney: the Wagatha Christie Trial at the Ambassadors Theatre in the West End!

Over the past couple of months we've seen Jessica Swale's Nell Gwynn at the Oxford Playhouse and Lucy Prebble's The Effect at the Burton Taylor Theatre which is a tiny place (40 seats or so?) behind the Playhouse. Both excellent.

it's the most exhausting time of the year:

https://i.imgur.com/IIjgV1Y.jpg

a few times a year the theater i work at hosts these vast scripted showcases put on by a kids' dance studio that rehearses in their own space for months; holds a single dress rehearsal in our theater, during the real-time runtime of which i design+program the lights+fx; then opens the following night. always a lil fraught and becomes more so if i have a conflict and have to deputize someone (last time i did this i did not see the results of course but afterwards the studio's formidable auteur demanded a reduction). cannot work this weekend's show because am starting rehearsals up the street for my own prod of the tempest, but was able to design the show at dress tonight accompanied by my substitute for the operation, ben, a much sharper guy and faster learner than last time who is very interested in and excited about the work and whom i'm not worried about, but whom i have had to train up for this v quickly. as we passed thru the office on our way into the house, the theater's exec director stopped us to say meaningfully, under his breath, "ben is an experienced theater tech." ben has run lights for our last few concerts, so we nodded knowingly and said "of course he is." we entered the house and climbed to the tech table. thirty seconds after the show's director sat down next to us and i made introductions, ben neatly clicked a pen open over his copy of the script, looked at the first lighting cue, and in a v winning dot-every-i just-checking kind of voice said "what's 'upstage' mean again?"

― difficult listening hour, Thursday, May 12, 2022 10:23 PM bookmarkflaglink

update: this guy (not really named ben) is now my constant collaborator and has entirely taken over designing these dance shows; could not live without him.

Go Ben go

I've been thinking about trying to go to the theatre regularly in London w/o seeing any adaptations or revivals. Could be a fun challenge!

i was in the West End yesterday and passed by VANYA starring andrew scott and i was like wow, i didn’t know about that, i’ll see andrew scott in uncle vanya and i crossed the street to read the notices and finally realised it’s a ONE MAN SHOW inspired by uncle vanya and instantly i lost all interest can you imagine

Been going on about an album of Patti Lupone cabaret performances from 1980 called Live at Les Mouches an another thread but maybe this is a better place. From earlier today before the slowdown:

Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

This thing has such a cult there was even a reanactment tribute: https://playbill.com/article/diva-talk-chatting-with-lupone-at-les-mouchess-leslie-kritzer-plus-rogers-evita-on-disc-com-135109

From the other thread:
Been digging a live version of “Because the Night” by Patti…Lupone. She makes it sound like an outtake from The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

― The Ginger Bakersfield Sound (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 9 March 2024 11:50 (yesterday) link

From this:
https://playbill.com/article/patti-lupone-at-les-mouches-vintage-lupone-club-act-arrives-in-stores-nov-11-com-155028

― The Ginger Bakersfield Sound (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 9 March 2024 11:57 (yesterday) link

Which was a midnight Saturday cabaret show she was doing in 1980 while she was in the midst of doing Evita.

― The Ginger Bakersfield Sound (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 9 March 2024 11:59 (yesterday) link

From old cassette tapes! Pretty appropriate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMRF7PiJBAs

I found some weird casting things while I was deep down that rabbit hole yesterday. Maybe I will post, perhaps on a new thread.

Good in-depth review of the Jeremy Strong / Michael Imperioli Enemy of the People on Broadway. Interesting that it barely discusses the staging, where other shows directed by Sam Gold usually have conceptual tricks that overshadow the story and actors.

i wrote about "An Enemy of the People," those enviro-protests i somehow missed, Amy Herzog's Ibsenism and the gently troubling poems of Tomas Tranströmer, the allure of Jeremy Strong, and the inconvenience of telling the truth. https://t.co/JAekaWfHFS

— Vinson Cunningham (@vcunningham) March 22, 2024