Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

Zimmerman calls Martin racial slur on 911 call

i think the metastory is that the right has basically ignored this

"obama's" DOJ getting involved will probably wake them up tho

muslim president stealin our lawmakin

Zimmerman calls Martin racial slur on 911 call

^^^welp, there's yr federal case

yeah he definitely says "fucking coon" under his breath on that 911 call. presumably that would help with the hate crimes prosecution? also fuck everything.

also just fyi the zimmermans of the world: 911 is not for reporting the fact that people are walking around neighborhoods

also fuck everything

otm

i cant stop thinking about shakeys crazy neighbor, really hope that dude doesnt have a gun

like, this guy seemed to call 911 A LOT. about EVERYTHING. obviously it's small beer in the scheme of things but aren't serial 911 abusers supposed to be punished somehow?

i bet the 911 operators just love these rent-a-cops constant calls about people walking around neighborhoods

im probably stretching but i think these guys are are a recognizable "type"--there's definitely a violent fantasy at work, something they rehearse and fantasize repeatedly about as much as any compulsive killer.

i was told at some point as a kid that each call to 911 costs some hundreds amount of $, and calling it when it wasn't needed could get you in big trouble

i find it hard to see this current situation as anything other than one individual stalking and killing another.

i cant stop thinking about shakeys crazy neighbor, really hope that dude doesnt have a gun

he's black himself, wouldn't be surprised if there's some paranoia feedback loop in action or something

i feel like the 911 call was to somehow validate everything he was feeling to himself, like "the cops are on my side here"

he's probably like "man why are all these people givin me suspicious looks, I'm just out here looking for suspicious people at 4 in the morning"

xp

Moreon that last phone call Martin made. If there's no indictment on this thing . . .

The pair's phone logs, obtained by ABC News, show they spoke just five minutes before police responded to reports of a shooting at the gated community in Sanford, Fla.

Recounting her conversation with Martin, the teen girl said, "He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man."

"I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run," she said.

After a few minutes, the girl said, Martin thought he was safe. But eventually the man appeared again.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for?'" the girl said. "And the man said, 'What are you doing here?' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the [phone’s\] headset just fell."

The line went dead, the girl said.

"I called him again and he didn't answer the phone," she said.

honestly i can't wrap my mind around the self-defense rationale, how is it self-defense if the entire series of events amounted to Zimmerman instigating and escalating the conflict??

oh man, that girl's account. :( this is the worst story.

I guess it's just my personal feeling that hate crime laws should be reserved for cases where the point of the crime is to express hate or to intimidate a racial group, not just cases where racial bias played a significant role. At the same time, given the joke that is Florida justice in cases like this, I won't actually be unhappy with Feds intervening.

i think zimmerman certainly intended to intimidate a racial group. he viewed it as self-defense against that racial group's depravity. that's hatred, isn't it?

i don't know how i feel about hate crimes legislation but george zimmerman needs to be off the streets.

I guess it's just my personal feeling that hate crime laws should be reserved for cases where the point of the crime is to express hate or to intimidate a racial group, not just cases where racial bias played a significant role.

The distinction you believe you are making is nonexistent.

djp otmfm

yeah that's more to the point

I don't agree, because I think there are different levels of intent at work. "I'm going to kill that black guy because he's black" is different than "I'm going to kill that black guy because I am suspicious of what he's doing in my gated community (in large part because I have a warped perception of black people)" even as fucked up as the latter is.

Hate crime legislation exists specifically because racial bias has done a wonderful job of keeping people from actually being prosecuted under existing statutes for crimes that already exist. If the police department had done its job and if Florida didn't have this insane "stand your ground" law, the Federal government wouldn't need to investigate this at all, let alone invoke any hate crime statutes.

Seriously, Hurting, BAIL on that argument. ABORT!! ABORT!!!!!

By your logic, it's not a hate crime for a white neighbor to burn a cross on the lawn of the only black family in town.

"I'm going to kill that black guy because he's black" is different than "I'm going to kill that black guy because I am suspicious of what he's doing in my gated community (in large part because I have a warped perception of black people)" even as fucked up as the latter is.

I don't see the difference

One is racist assholism with delusion, one is racist assholism without?

By your logic, it's not a hate crime for a white neighbor to burn a cross on the lawn of the only black family in town.

― thuggish ruggish Brahms (DJP), Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:15 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No, that would be a perfect example of a hate crime, because it's obvious that the whole purpose of the crime is to intimidate based on race. I mean THAT'S why you have hate crime laws -- because otherwise burning a cross, which is a horribly fucked up and violent act, would just be petty vandalism.

killing a black dude because you're racist is pretty intimidating to other black people fyi

what about "i'm going to kill that black guy because he whistled at a white woman (in large part because i have a warped perception of black people"

as george zimmerman has proven to be a clear danger to black people, the obvious answer, under florida law, is for a black person to shoot him in self defense.

hoos gay co-worker thread to thread

i might not recall correctly, forgive me, but i thought that hate crime legislation only provided for increased sentencing on crimes found to be motivated by racial bias?

what about "i'm going to kill that black guy because he whistled at a white woman (in large part because i have a warped perception of black people"

― the late great, Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:19 PM (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah exactly. ps killing black men because they're all intent on robbing you is the SAME RACIAL MYTHOLOGY as black men will rape all your white women because they're oversexed brutes.

I realize that this is not an argument I really want to keep making for much longer, but I still think there's a distinction. But "he whistled at a white woman" is pretty categorically different from "I unreasonably thought he was a burglar."

mookie i have already done that joke, keep up!

sorry, tracer

I realize that this is not an argument I really want to keep making for much longer, but I still think there's a distinction. But "he whistled at a white woman" is pretty categorically different from "I unreasonably thought he was a burglar."

― the prurient pinterest (Hurting 2), Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:21 PM (23 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no. there's a cultural attitude we're isolating here and it's about an image of black men that is pretty disgusting and familiar.

also hilariously backward. again, who is a threat to whom here.

as far as I know, federal hate crime legislation involves penalty enhancement, not new categories of crimes? (prosecution under civil rights violations is sort of a separate and prior category).

i'm sort of surprised that the guy who walks around with a LOADED GUN AT 4 IN THE MORNING, FOLLOWING PEOPLE wasn't reported to the cops a few times.

he's fighting the good fight

he's dirty harry out there

puke

i'm sort of surprised that the guy who walks around with a LOADED GUN AT 4 IN THE MORNING, FOLLOWING PEOPLE wasn't reported to the cops a few times.

it's okay cuz he's not black do you see

glad to hear there's some solid, case-related evidence that would support a hate-crimes prosecution. referring to the slur on the tape. was waiting (and, forgive me, hoping) for that. and yeah, i know that the feds can't prosecute the murder/manslaughter charges themselves, but they can put pressure on local police and the DA's office by suggesting that they're acting improperly in failing to prosecute - or at least i think they could do this.

so one could conceivably kill anyone, on a whim, and as long as no-one else saw it claim it was self defense and get away with it? really? for real?

― ledge, Tuesday, March 20, 2012 8:45 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, absolutely. it's happened before.