Community, the tv show

doing the Seinfeld finale is not a good thing!

Not at all! Just saying these characters would fit that mold pretty easily.

I disagree. I think that's a shallow assessment of these characters.

when people say things like "It's sure as hell not about community college!" I really wonder if they're watching the same show as I am

I mean, the show is doing all sorts of goofy hyper-aware stylistic things but the core of the stories always go back to the school and how these characters are changing as a result of their experiences there and with each other. The school setting is what brought them all together and is the main thing keeping them together.

The only episodes I'd say were REALLY disconnected from the school are these two third season episodes:

Remedial Chaos Theory
Studies in Modern Movement

Everything else is either centered around the school or initiated by the school, and even with those two you have the argument that the shuffling of living accommodations from year to year by the younger characters with fewer roots is still something that's tied pretty closely to the experience of being a post-high school student.

it's a fucking american network sitcom! ppl are complaining about character development vs. world building vs. consistency vs. whatever

I think it works really well as a fucking american network sitcom, and that's the big strength and the only issues you run into is when all the second sentence stuff is held up as the big reasons to watch. Rather than the jokes. It's fun to poke holes in character dev., world building, consistency, etc. because that stuff is pretentious and it's mostly being projected onto a show that has a real strength in just being funny.

I wouldn't call it pretentious. Community isn't making a plea to the audience to Save the Children or insisting THIS IS HOW THE WORLD SHOULD BE, say, Aaron Sorkin-style. Lots of great comedies have these things, and they shouldn't be ashamed to shoot for them, otherwise all we'll get is Chuck Lorre sitcoms.

But I think this show is already surprisingly successful in this regard, so what do I know

agree with Some Dude

I'm kinda with mookie here...I love the show, I get a great amount of enjoyment out of it but I've never thought of it in terms of anything beyond Parks & Rec. I mean, sure Harmon throws in a meta episode every now and then and the jokes seem somehow 'more clever' but I would never have thought it worthy of the kind of excavation that's happening itt

Not that the excavators are ill-advised, I just do not have the energy to pull apart something I find funny. cf: comedy voting thread. I like talking about what other ppl find funny, but when you get into why it isn't, and why it doesn't work, and all that it's like pffflt *balloon deflating*

fun things = fun conversation, imo. which probably makes me super twee airhead person but whatever.

when people say things like "It's sure as hell not about community college!" I really wonder if they're watching the same show as I am

OTM. Unlike most shows in a scholastic setting, this show even actually spends a fair amount of time on the school part of school: there have been many episodes in classroom settings, dealing with homework, etc from the very beginning.

in a scholastic setting

Actually, I should say "shows about students".

And this is nothing like Seinfeld, come on! It has to be one of the most sentimental sitcoms in ages! How could anyone not see character development? Look at how much Jeff's character has softened, how much Annie has grown, the real closeness of Troy's and Abed's friendship. Seinfeld would never spend an entire episode creating a stop-motion world just to explore one character's subconscious trauma caused by his Mum not coming home for Christmas.

Yeaaaaaah...Josh is about as OffTM about this show as possible. To the extent that I'd argue that Community (which is at least in part about the importance of, uh, community and conflict resolution and growth) is in some ways the polar opposite of Seinfeld (which celebrated selfishness and solipsism and eternal adolescence). Yeah, there are displays of selfishness and antisocial behavior in both shows, but their function and the way they're handled are completely different. And, tonally, they're just such different creatures.

Whatevs. Different strokes, etc. Regardless, I love "Community."

when people say things like "It's sure as hell not about community college!" I really wonder if they're watching the same show as I am

This is nonsense. That's like saying "Parks and Recreation" is about small town governance and civil service. One of the many things I love about this show is that it doesn't even pretend to be about where it is set. They don't study (which is part of the joke). No one graduates (which is part of the joke). The classes are jokes (which is part of the joke). Anyone who watched this show wouldn't learn a damn thing about community college. It's this surreal idea of community college which is, again, part of the joke. And it's a funny joke.

Not sure that I buy that "Community" is about conflict resolution. If anything, it's about pretending to resolve conflicts while simmering undercurrents of tension and general insanity generally go unaddressed or get pushed aside. Which is, yes, part of the joke.

I think you might be watching another show, not Community

is it The View?

It's about a bunch of diverse women sitting at a table yelling at each other, with guest stars. Is that "Community?"

No one graduates (which is part of the joke).

apparently this is a community college that gives bachelor's degrees (i've never heard of such a creature but dan harmon INSISTS) so they've got four years to play with.

But there has never been a graduation ceremony! And none of the featured players have left yet, either!

(I'm still talking about "The View." Right?)

Community has only been running for two and a half years, not more-than-four. Are you thinking of Spooks? Featured players have left that.

But they're on their third year, right? And no one has left. Not Starburns, not Leonard, not weird funny-talking nerd dude, not any of the other major players.

Maybe Fat Neil graduated?

other similarities between Seinfeld and Community:

The gang in Community sits at a table for large portions of each episode.

fairly sure i saw a table in many episodes of Seinfeld!

OK, this show is not about community college in any remotely realistic way, I'll give you that.

But I mean, they do study, to varying degrees (Annie more than Jeff, for instance). Jeff and Pierce stayed up to finish a Spanish class presentation in one of the earliest episodes.

apparently this is a community college that gives bachelor's degrees (i've never heard of such a creature but dan harmon INSISTS)

Ha, I'd just been kind of assuming that maybe this is a thing in the US, where all post-secondary education is "college" anyway.:P

"one of the earliest episodes" tho

hard to say that the show in its current iteration (what class are they taking, again?) is ABOUT community college. it just uses the college as a setting and inspiration for plots/joeks. but it's become arbitrary imo, as much as any sitcom that doesn't take place in a suburban home.

Exactly. Hardly any sitcom centered around a particular location/workplace (e.g. Cheers, NewsRadio, et al) is really about that location/workplace in any meaningful way.

can i just say, i suspect that 'an analogy is a thought wearing another thought's hat' is a secret decoder ring for the last episode (and probably the whole show). even though it comes from britta. but i cannot prove it yet.

L O S T

OK, I'll admit that my perspective is probably swayed by watching the s1 DVDs a lot since getting them for Christmas. The show really was about a community college study group and their classes and teachers at that point. In fact, I think that losing that element may be part of why much of the current seasons feels a bit off to me. (On the other hand, that could be bullshit because some of my favourite s3 episodes - Chaos Theory, Documentary Film - are the least college-y and I hated the 'Todd' episode which actually was all about a class project.)

"Current season", of course. S2 was the pinnacle. And, to be clear, about half of s3 has been as good.

Why would people in the same class graduate before other people in that class? "Fat Neil is graduating! Despite only being here for 2 years, he just did really well in Spanish 101!"

it's a fucking american network sitcom! ppl are complaining about character development vs. world building vs. consistency vs. whatever

this reminds me of the bro across the hallway from me my first year in college. he was listening to mobb deep, and i came in. while we were talking, i noted that i liked the production on the record. he gave me a screwed-up look and said, "'production'? who cares about 'production'?! it's just rap, dude."

ahahahaha

sonned by rap bro

hard to say that the show in its current iteration (what class are they taking, again?) is ABOUT community college. it just uses the college as a setting and inspiration for plots/joeks.

... You realize your criticism boils down to "'Community' is a television show", right

my cable package comes w/ some closed circuit University of Maryland programming, ever since i discovered the video brochure they air every day at 7pm i haven't felt the need to watch "Community" anymore

sonned by rap bro

― thomp, Wednesday, March 21, 2012 5:20 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i suppose, but my point is more that production, to a great extent, _is_ rap. it's one thing to say you don't care, another to say it doesn't matter.

Why would people in the same class graduate before other people in that class?

Standing in the same room/hallway is not the same thing as being in the same graduating class. I assume some people at Greendale are just taking classes for the hell of it (Leonard, Pierce). Others have a goal in mind: ostensibly Jeff, Annie, um ...

Speaking of weird continuity sort of hiccups: wasn't there an ep early on where Jeff is sleeping in his car because he can't afford his rent anymore? Why was Jeff poor for just that one episode?

just fyi, not remembering what happened != continuity hiccup. that episode was about jeff moving out of his car (he briefly moves into the dorms and finally gets his shit together and gets an apartment iirc).

omg this thread is going to kill my appreciation for this show more than anything else anywhere ever. you guys are turning out worse than a/v club commenters at this point.

I remember pretty well. I remember him not being able to afford an apartment and then being able to afford an apartment. Maybe he lives around the corner from Dildopolis?

xpost Oh, come on. I love this show. It's one of my favorite shows of all time. Seriously.

Come to think of it, where/how people are living has been a pretty constant subplot. Chang, Jeff, Annie, Troy and Abed. We don't know where Britta lives, do we? And I'm surprised we haven't seen Pierce Manor, let alone got to see Pierce and Troy living together.

the problem is with the analyzing to death itt, not that you enjoy it. i love it too, but jfc you guys, slow down.

We don't know where Britta lives, do we?

She defensively and proudly retorted to her and Jeff's teenage tormentors that she lives in a studio apartment in season one's "The Art of Discourse."

To be honest, I'm more concerned with what the characters are eating. Do we know for sure that they're getting three squares a day? Abed is looking awfully skinny, and I know I haven't seen him eat much protein in recent eps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r9yp-t5ZYA

Jeff couldn't afford payments on his condo mortgage, I thought? The resolution was for him to let it go and rent a (much cheaper) apartment instead.

^^^ OTM

I think it's really a failing of the series that we haven't met Jeff's landlord yet. We don't even know if he's wacky or gruff or anything. This show is the worst.