Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

My black twitter friends tell me that this case is worse because the 17 year old was killed for nothing more than being black. But is the black 17 year old killed accidently by a drive by shooting any more dead than Trayvon? Again, is that any less tragic??

In my twitter conversations I was schooled on “wealth disparities,” and “racial disparities,” and how I was “someone operating in whiteness” that couldn’t possibly understand.

http://blog.chron.com/texassparkle/2012/03/the-tragedy-of-trayvon-martin/

(More on that “white” part later)

Um...there's at least a chance that the shooter in a drive by will be brought to justice. That possibility seems to be in jeopardy in this case, which is most of why it's a big deal and getting a large amount of attention.

what does "it's a gated community but you can walk in and steal whatever you want" mean?

You can cut through the woods.

It doesn't matter what race Zimmerman identifies as. The racism here is an entrenched, institutional part of the justice system: If you want to be nearly assured of getting the death penalty, kill a white female; if you want to give yourself good odds of never being charged, kill a black male. Doesn't matter the race of the perpetrator.

I agree that it doesn't matter. was just perplexed when I saw the guy's photo

quote sounded like armed vigilante was their only option once thieves got past the gate.

texassparkle's bio: "I'm a conservative activist. I blog at The Houston Chronicle, RightWingNews, Newsbusters, and my own site."

so yeah, trolling.

xp Rashada doesn't sound like he approves of what Zimmerman did. He just has an opinion about the security of his housing development.

from all accounts it honestly sounds like zimmerman is mentally unstable, paranoid and completely unfit to carry around a weapon. and racist as hell, of course, but i get the sense that a factor in the institutional protection for him is happening because the police force that should be arresting him feels guilty that they ever let him have his power in the first place.

also MEGA RACISM, but i can't stop thinking about how CREEPY this guy's specific brand of sociopathy is.

also heavily annoyed that signing petitions for his arrest or just signal boosting in general isn't happening at a millionth of the same pace as jason russell's funtime-let's-all-kill-an-irrelevant-warlord campaign last week.

DOJ apparently taking over the case

also phone records show Martin had called his girlfriend minutes before the shooting, her name is being withheld at the moment but she has stated how Martin said how Zimmerman was pursuing him, he put his hood up because a guy was watching him?

this is so totally fucked, all of it

this is so terrible. I started to listen to the call but I just can't. I hope the DOJ gets this asshole into a federal prison ASAP.

What is the federal angle on the case?

the state is too pathetic to lock up its dangerous citizens?

you have really never heard of white latino/hispanic as a category? it's basically a race v. ethnicity question i.e. what matters more to people as a meaningful moniker/identifier.

many xps

sincerely, your whitish-tannish-sometimes olive-complected latino correspondant

(fyi I know that's not specifically a valid federal case, I'm just mad)

The Department of Justice's statement said:

"The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation. The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident. With all federal civil rights crimes, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally and with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids – the highest level of intent in criminal law. Negligence, recklessness, mistakes and accidents are not prosecutable under the federal criminal civil rights laws."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/os-trayvon-martin-doj-investigation-20120320,0,6763029.story

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/os-trayvon-martin-doj-investigation-20120320,0,6763029.story

whoops, beat me to it

That police chief really is a piece of work. He really does have no sense of what a fool he sounds, I guess.

right so hate crime law I guess? IDK on one hand I guess I'm glad the feds will take this away from fla, but otoh wouldn't it be pretty hard to demonstrate that this was actually a hate crime? I mean obv the fact that the kid was black is a big part of why he is now dead, but it looks more like Zimmerman was a paranoid racist asshole who imagined he was protecting his gated community, not a guy out to intimidate black people in general.

Not necessarily hate crime law, counselor, you should know better!

i mean, i really have no idea -- is pursuing someone with a loaded weapon a clear indicator of malicious intent? i think there it's clear that zimmerman saw martin as criminal because he was black, and that he pursued martin because he thought he was criminal.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/trayvon-martin-case-sent-to-grand-jury

but can you string those together and argue that zimmerman pursued and shot martin because he was black? that's certainly how i see it going down but i don't know if that's enough to make a case xp

what "federal civil rights statutes" would cover this besides hate crime laws?

Maybe a failure to charge Zimmerman amounts to some 14th amendment equal protection/due process violation?

no way

Way. It's a tough argument, but doable.

as i understand the case, one of the biggest problems any possible prosecution faces is that while lots of people saw/heard the lead-up and immediate aftermath, george zimmerman is the only direct, living witness to the encounter and shooting itself. he made sure of that. his version of events is therefore all anyone really has to go on, absent forensic evidence that might seem to dispute it. i mean, zimmerman says trayvon martin attacked him. even if we have every reason to doubt his character and state of mind, i suspect that his story will be awfully difficult to unambiguously disprove in a court of law. all the hypothetical prosecution seems to have at this point are a few witnesses who say they heard trayvon call for help (or think they heard trayvon, or w/e).

if this case ever does go to trial, it's going to be very interesting to see what a jury makes of it. half suspect that a hung jury would be the outcome every time.

i mean, i really have no idea -- is pursuing someone with a loaded weapon a clear indicator of malicious intent? i think there it's clear that zimmerman saw martin as criminal because he was black, and that he pursued martin because he thought he was criminal.

(not personally but) legally speaking, i don't think it's at all "clear that zimmerman saw martin as criminal because he was black". i imagine that the defense's argument would be that zimmerman saw martin as a criminal because he was behaving "erratically" or "suspiciously".

honestly, i'm disappointed that the DOJ is apparently only (?) investigating the possibility of a hate-crimes prosecution, rather than pushing for a murder/manslaughter charge.

With all federal civil rights crimes, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally and with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids – the highest level of intent in criminal law. Negligence, recklessness, mistakes and accidents are not prosecutable under the federal criminal civil rights laws."

loading the deck a little here, no?

if this case ever does go to trial, it's going to be very interesting to see what a jury makes of it.

What a jury will make of this concerns me, frankly.

george zimmerman is the only direct, living witness to the encounter and shooting itself. he made sure of that. his version of events is therefore all anyone really has to go on

so one could conceivably kill anyone, on a whim, and as long as no-one else saw it claim it was self defense and get away with it? really? for real?

Murder and manslaughter aren't federal crimes, are they? Those prosecutions are left to the state. The federal case would be for violating his civil rights (by making him dead).

Yeah, I don't think this should be investigated as a hate crime even though it's pretty clear that race was a factor. But I'm starting to feel like any possible justice that gets done as a result of this tragedy will be tangential to the incident in question.

even if we have every reason to doubt his character and state of mind, i suspect that his story will be awfully difficult to unambiguously disprove in a court of law.

Trials . . . do not work that way?

well, that's the risk you run when you get courts involved btwn perps and justice /dredd

his version of events is therefore all anyone really has to go on, absent forensic evidence that might seem to dispute it.

was there forensic evidence taken from the scene?

i think the local cops forensically investigated that the guy killed was black, unsure as to how much further it went tbh

i am going to be for real here i don't care how it's done i want that dude in jail. jenny's point brings up the larger issue that is so upsetting from reading about this case, though; gated communities and institutionalized racism and the irony that white people think black people are so scary when really black people are terrified of white people because look what happens.

Bringing a federal charge of civil rights violation in a murder case has always been an end run around local prosecutors who are sitting on their hands. Yes, it is a convoluted way to get justice, but it works.

If local prosecutors fail to bring this to a grand jury, or the grand jury fails to indict, I think bringing a federal charge would be OK by me. It is so fucking obvious what happened and Zimmerman is lying his head off.

send in gene hackman imo

there are a billion and one factoids going around about this -- has it been mentioned that martin was on the phone when this happened?

Words cannot express how much I hate this man and want him dead.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article238030539.html

George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer acquitted of homicide charges in the 2012 fatal shooting of unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, is suing Martin’s family, prosecutors and others involved in the case he claims rested on false evidence, according to a copy of the suit sent to the media Wednesday.

Zimmerman is represented by Larry Klayman, a high-profile legal crusader tied to conservative causes and the founder of Judicial Watch before splitting with the activist group.

The suit in Polk County Circuit Court cites information in a documentary about the case that accuses the Martin family of engineering false testimony, and the director has scheduled a press conference this week in Coral Gables to coincide with a film screening there. The suit seeks $100 million in civil damages, alleging defamation, abuse of civil process and conspiracy. A copy of the suit was distributed to media Wednesday by the movies’ director, Joe Gilbert. The case does not yet appear on the online docket of the Polk court system.

isn't Klayman the fella who tried to sue Obama because he felt threatened as a white man