Rolling 'this is sexist' thread

eh, it's crappy in a perfectly ordinary and unremarkable way. see worse all the time.

"this is much lower on the sexism totem pole but still"

i'm not sure why that's sexist? women are marginalized in music enough that any attempt to spotlight female artists should be lauded, no? like, i get the concern over treating them like some kind of special species of musician ('ladies' as some distinct category from 'general musician'), but i doubt that's the intention here?

it's more the way it's being said than what

"It only stands to reason that some of them are doing it in heels" ffs

There's the super condescending opening, ending with "As a favor to Women's History Month researchers of the future, Rocks Off has compiled the following list of 10 ladies whose music we're way, way into at the moment. Savor that spotlight, girls, and remember -- you might be making history."

I mean... a "favor"? "Savor that spotlight, girls"?

Then, out of the ten profiles, the Sleigh Bells blurb spends just as much time talking about how hot Alexis Krauss is and several of the other profiles have side allusions to the singer's physical attractiveness in them (Crystal Castles: "potent blend of disturbing and alluring"; The Tontons: "you can always count on Asli to put the city's freshest musical face forward"; Lacuna Coil: "The Lacuna Coil singer brings a singular, feminine grace to a rock genre that sorely lacks it").

Then you have the inclusion of Feist, which baldly states "we actually hate her but she has an album coming out that we have to hype".

The only inclusions that seem to be purely about women as musicians are Adele, Janelle Monae, Madonna and Florence and the Machine.

Like I said, it's much further down the totem pole when compared to things like the legislative hate crimes happening against women in this country, but that doesn't mean it isn't sexist.

tbf if there's one thing that goth metal is sorely lacking it's female singers so kudos to this guy for highlighting that

Yeah I didn't actually bother reading the article so you've def answered my question... xp

"There are a couple of reasons why we're so into Janelle Monae. The first reason is that she pretty much exclusively releases concept records about robot women. That's good enough that we don't really need a second reason, but we also happen to be very impressed that she can tie a bowtie."

sold

yeah that was dumb too but I figured I was already complaining way too much about this list

that monae thing really annoyed me

https://storify.com/charlesarthur/oh-hai-sexism

female programmer tweets at a company's founders saying that a video promoting their brand is sexist, they spend their time dissecting her use of words and making thinly-veiled threats about knowing her employer

She has a point - I saw this earlier, though, and really did feel her approach (the "fucking gross") was a shitty* one. Is she a teenager? She should know better! Wish we could do a controlled study where she instead said "I find this offensive" or something with more respectable language. /Grandma

*Hah - I'm just as bad. But I don't tweet complaints to companies, generally. I just don't buy things that anger me.

protip: don't read the comments on that storify link

eh, i think it's completely reasonable to think that women should be able to get angry & confrontational & use profanity without them being derided as unprofessional, irrational, or attention-seeking

No kidding.

To me, the issue isn't even about the video, it's about their completely idiotic response to her complaint. Yes, she probably should have phrased things differently or taken a different approach, but their reaction was completely bullshit. The response to "I think this is sexist" isn't "You are a big meany and I know your boss"

Their apology pretty much blows, too. The video was made by a woman! We have women in our office! I own another business that employs many women! None of those is "We responded inappropriately to someone on twitter"

is there a place to watch the video? it's apparently private now?

FFM do you seriously think if she had said, "I find it offensive" she would have gotten a positive response?

Responding to a criticism by criticizing the delivery of the comment is a classic way to derail a potentially legit discussion - http://derailingfordummies.com/#hostile - and it happens all the time.

elmo, mh OTM

some of my best friends are women

I am definitely a "you get more bees with honey" kind of woman, yes. I am smart enough to be aware that people will let my delivery get in the way of my message and try to conduct myself accordingly, when it's important to me.

I mean, the whole "she shouldn't use such objectionable language" is the EXACT response she got:

@shanley @rekatz I'm not cool with the angry tone regardless of the context or situation, far more professional ways to handle.
Christian Sanz
14 hours ago
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@shanley @rekatz you could have adressed this in a far more professional way, like "hey guys, I sent you an email", yelling+cursing not cool
Christian Sanz
14 hours ago
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Translation: stop being so uppity, woman.

the gist is, "sorry if our objectification of women offended you, but we'd be more responsive to your complaint if it were delivered in a more ladylike tone."

or, "pipe down so we can disregard you, woman."

Yup.

(N.B. I would be saying the exact same thing if a man was the typist.)

the one thing I've learned is that "I have a family" is apparently a response to anything

"Don't swear at me, I have a family"

they do come across a little like "but you know us! you know we aren't sexist! *pout*" in the midst of their rampant sexism

FFM, let's assume she was an overly hostile person and was in the wrong. Does that make their response any more right?

I also like how she didn't really call them sexist, just was asking about this video she had an objection to, and then they started doing everything they could to turn it into a debate about her character

I HAVE A FAMILY.

(N.B. I would be saying the exact same thing if a man was the typist.)

But it wasn't. It was a woman expressing a strong opinion about something she found sexist and the response was "watch your mouth, lady!" which is as much the sexist part as the video itself. Focusing on her unladylike language instead of the complaint is the problem.

I HAVE CHILDREN.

I once made the mistake of using my work email address as my contact info when cruising through a Cure-related website that had some really terrible mystery meat navigation and said so in the comments; the webmaster wrote me back an angry letter where he threatened to expose my blatant unprofessionalism to my boss because he thought I was a competing web developer trolling for business by insulting his work. I immediately told my boss and we both laughed at his dumb ass. (I also wrote back and clarified that I was a fan of the music and not a web developer.)

YOU CAN'T TALK TO ME THAT WAY. I HAVE TWO DOGS.

YOU CAN'T TALK TO ME THAT WAY I HAVE A UTERUS.

whoa, tmi there lady. why do you have to advertise you're a woman? what an attention whore.

I see everyone the same. Men, women, ladyboys, purple people

is it poor taste for me to say the last few posts have had me in hysterics

oh man, that was subtle, a+ punchline Mr. P

Poor taste? On MY internet?

I CAN'T BE SEXIST, I HAVE A DAUGHTER.

I wonder if it would blow those dudes' minds if someone told them women can be sexist

mh: people go on the defensive when their mistakes are pointed out, his first response was fairly reasonable (could have used a sorry, maybe) in the 'we do need a new one :)' admission. You get treated how you treat others! She does identify whatever company she works for in her 'about me' section, I didn't see his mention of it as a threat to get her in trouble - I can see how people would - but twitter is an imperfect medium to have a debate about feminism.

Carl - where do they mention she's a lady? ("watch your mouth, lady!")

Er I think I lost my train of thought to mh - sorry! - I don't identify my company's name online because I feel doing so would mean that every tweet I make would be associated with them, a little bit. So if she wants to make a big deal to them about they way they are repsenting a brand, I think it's fair for them to point out that she is too. I wouldn't speak to a colleague like that. If your tweets only reflect yourself - why mention the company in your bio? Why make that link, you know?

You get treated how you treat others!

But this ISN'T TRUE, you're asserting a "truth" that is part of the problem.

twitter is an imperfect medium to have a debate about feminism.

So people should only have objections to shittiness when it's convenient for the offender? That's...convenient.

Uh, they outright said "we know your boss"

soooooo have any of u seen this video?

the onus of professionalism is on the person acting in a professional capacity, not on the complainant. i mean, i get occasional rough language & abuse from customers on the phone, but that doesn't give me any license to disregard the customer or the substance of their complaint.

xp back to me "I have a family" is pretty lol but really it all got so annoying to me I could barely bring myself to read to the end, heh.

Laurel - what I meant by imperfect medium is that trying to cram words into 140 characters can change a person's tone in a response. Like his sentence about her working for Basho coming off as a threat to her, and me needing three sentences to explain what my interpretation might have been. If she'd emailed them (where they would have unlimited characters with which to draft a response) and got no response (or a shitty response) after a day or two, maybe then twitter is the answer to raise the awareness.

And okay, maybe you don't always get treated the way you treat others but I feel my own behaviour is certainly a factor that defines how people speak to me. But some people are just jerks.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq4whcX42G1qztjn5o1_500.jpg

the other thing to realize is that she wasn't personally attacking either of them, she was attacking a video that was related to their company! I understand they feel like their company is important but an individual accusing a company of being sexist and appealing to the leaders of that company is different from them mentioning their business connections and pulling those in the conversation.

"I, as a person, find this offensive" is not something you respond to with as "We, as a company know where you work and can tell your boss"