The Matrix Reloaded (full spoilers)

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we could say the same of your criticisms Horace

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 2 June 2003 15:11 (twenty years ago) link

but you'd be lying.
You don't expect much from me, admit it.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 2 June 2003 15:17 (twenty years ago) link

don't pull that thang out unless you plan to bang

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 2 June 2003 15:27 (twenty years ago) link

why are things like dialogue and general acting regarded as more important than aesthetics and artistic and technical execution of the film irrespective of its cast?

Stevem, I think most people's problem here (or at least mine) isn't neccessarily the quality of the dialogue (it was pretty bad in the first film too), but rather the overabundance of it--the too many long, long scenes of just talking heads, which never gave the movie the chance to build up any momentum. To me this is poor artistic execution.

s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 2 June 2003 15:39 (twenty years ago) link

agreed although i found this to be quite unexpected so the relative novelty of the philosphical monologues didnt really bother me tho i was thinking 'i can't believe they didnt edit this more' during the rave/love scene and Merothingamajig's rant. The Architect scene was fairly well timed and conceived.

i think i'll be sorely disappointed with Star Wars Episode III in perhaps the same way Horace has been with Reloaded - as he said he 'expected more' tho i'm not sure if that means he had ideas that failed to appear in the film or he expected more (and more convincing) character development and less cliched dialogue.

can some parallels not be drawn between Reloaded and X-Men 2 also? both seemed to drift somewhat aimlessly plotwise at times (tho this didnt make them actually boring as you were kept guessing as to how exactly things were going to pan out) partly because it became apparent that both films were trying to avoid certain courses of predictability at least at times and with both involving a wide range of characters, several of whom had very vague alleigances to good and evil (esp. as the nature of what is good and what is evil is challenged refreshingly in both films). tho neither could hardly escape relatively happy 'endings' that amount to 'love conquering all', both follow the model of the middle act leaving several things unresolved and setting things up for the next installement.

stevem (blueski), Monday, 2 June 2003 16:14 (twenty years ago) link

Well, I thought both were let-downs--I think you're right with X2 in that the movie was stubbornly trying to chart a different course. While I respect that I think Singer forgot the important shit that needed to be in an X-Men movie, and settled for a pretty lousy, straight-to-video-quality finale.

s1utsky (slutsky), Monday, 2 June 2003 16:36 (twenty years ago) link

OOOH. Thanks for reminding me that I can now go read the X-Men 2 threads.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 2 June 2003 16:54 (twenty years ago) link

I think in X-Men, it's partly a matter of too many characters for anyone to do anything meaningful.
I only saw The Matrix once, so I'm no expert on it by any means, but one of my favourite parts was guessing at which myth/tradition/movie/book/religion they were plundering at any given moment. There was a similar appeal to the first Star Wars movie.
But Reloaded felt very unfocused to me, the hand-to-hand seemed awful wooden, and the relationships superficial and forced.
Agent Smith was the best part of it, and I guess that's what will take me to whatever the third one is called.
But the Keymaker was very portent for me, in that he admitted he was merely a plot device, something many of the other characters failed to achieve.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 2 June 2003 16:54 (twenty years ago) link

i suspect a lot of these criticisms could also be applied to many high-end anime films, but i'm not enough of an expert on that genre to give good examples

stevem (blueski), Monday, 2 June 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link

I don't really like anime, so there you go. maybe my appreciation of reloaded is contingent on that.
whatever, I don't begrudge you for enjoying it though, just so you don't think that I think that because I don't like something it's worthless and anybody who likes it is an unsophisticated rube taken in by hot hot hot Monica Belucci.

Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Monday, 2 June 2003 17:07 (twenty years ago) link

why do people keep saying they laughed at the movie. you laugh at funny things, not things you think you're clever enough to be unimpressed by. word.

as far as the sunglass example that opened this thread, it's badass to wear sunglasses when it's cloudy or indoors, but in bright light what's the point; you look like a tourist. I mean, someone could accuse you of wearing glasses to protect your eyes from glare, and without irony I state that that would be a terrible thing.

parts of this great movie were just awful, and not in a laughable way.

Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 00:34 (twenty years ago) link

The anime I like has totally great plot and character shit in addition to bad-ass action and animation.

Cowboy Bebob, episode five, hell yes.

Brian Mowrey (Brian Mowrey), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 00:38 (twenty years ago) link

parts of this great movie were just awful

i love that remark...truly it was awfully great, and greatly awful

actually i am not that big on most anime but i use the strong anime influence evident in Matrix Reloaded to argue it case, bizarrely. live action versions of anime films have been pretty much dud all round haven't they (altho i think Crying Freeman had its moments at least)?

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 3 June 2003 00:47 (twenty years ago) link

City Hunter was SO BAD

Dan I., Tuesday, 3 June 2003 00:54 (twenty years ago) link

My God. It was magnificent. Though I am a moron.

There is a preview at the end of the film? Noooooooooooooo! That'll teach me to want a ciggy badly.

I thought the trajectory was less mystical; Morpheus is the mystic boy, and he's revealed to be a patsy, played like a sucker by the Oracle.

Trinity was mighty fine. More than fine. I will fite the One and her husband in real life, because I luv her more than any man could.

Think that many have been hysterical with this; it's Episode I/II redux. Hysteric's reaction is 'This is not it'. Expectations were just too high, hence inevitable come-down. I'm so glad I waited and calmed the fuck down.

Overall - kung-futastic. Thumbs up from me.

Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 4 June 2003 09:56 (twenty years ago) link

iron lion zion

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 00:32 (twenty years ago) link

stevem if you want to check out some decent live-action 'anime' style films I suggest the following

Attack The Gas Station

The Returner

Resurrection of the Little Match Girl

and of course I love Gunhed as well but they haven't made a DVD of it yet. Frankly I am waiting for the Criterion Collection to pick these up (HA HA).

Millar (Millar), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 01:55 (twenty years ago) link

I loved the Teahouse Fight. It looked less like a fight and more like a beautiful dance. Especially that topdown view of Neo & Seraph performing spinkicks. And did anyone else think Morpheus - especially in Zion - sounded & spoke like teal'c in Stargate SG-1?

http://www.frailart.net/members/kodanshi/Hammylet.jpg

N. Ron, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 02:20 (twenty years ago) link

I gotta say, as much as I loved this bitch of a movie half to death the first time I saw it, IT MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE THE SECOND TIME.

Mike Stuchbery, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 07:12 (twenty years ago) link

When Agent Smith multiplies he become The Smiths. Do you (Morri)see!

Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 08:53 (twenty years ago) link

I thought it was more an Attack of the Clones -- (c) Peter Bradshaw (or whoever it was reviewed it for the Guardian)

Alan (Alan), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 09:31 (twenty years ago) link

one possibility about Smith's multiplicity...every time he copies himself he loses some of his original strength. probably not the case but would explain how Neo seems to have no less a problem fighting ten Smiths then fighting 100

i went and saw it again and yes it did make more sense. and the teaser trailer at the end looks pretty good, but tho i may have missed them i saw no glimpse of the twins in the next film, bah

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 10:11 (twenty years ago) link

regarding the story James Blount linked to, it reminds me of how some fundamental Christians objected to Harry Potter for promoting 'dark arts'

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 10:16 (twenty years ago) link

When Agent Smith multiplies he become The Smiths. Do you (Morri)see!

That's not punny.

Nicole (Nicole), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 12:23 (twenty years ago) link

Wrong, Nicole, wrong! That made me laugh out loud for ages. It therefore (to use an Americanism) "carnstitoots" funny. Very funny.

N. Ron, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 13:47 (twenty years ago) link

I've seen it ten times now (literally--we're showing it at the theatre I project at--and I'll be seeing it 12 times a week through August) and I like it a lot more now than when I first saw it (though I am surely sick of it).

The talky bits wear really thin, especially the Councillor Haman and Merovingian scenes and the scene with Penelope in the bathroom is drawn out. However the shot where she turns and gestures toward the Keymaker's cell is like the hottest thing ever filmed. I have decided Neo is a program and something is fishy with the Council but I am perhaps Matrixed out.

ps the freeway scene is way too long.

And the credits are ELEVEN MINUTES LONG. ELEVEN. That's REALLY LONG.

adam (adam), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 20:59 (twenty years ago) link

You're a projectionist?

s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 21:08 (twenty years ago) link

I haven't seen this yet but me and trife will be first in line when it his the Athens dollar theater

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 21:43 (twenty years ago) link

I am an IMAX projectionist. Like a regular one except bigger.

adam (adam), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 22:30 (twenty years ago) link

i sat thru those 11 minutes of credits to catch the trailer for Revolutions...its just about worth it, even tho it means you have to listen to Rage and P.O.D. beforehand, muahaha

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 22:39 (twenty years ago) link

I am an IMAX projectionist. Like a regular one except bigger.

That is awesome. May I email you and ask a bunch of questions?

s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 22:42 (twenty years ago) link

You certainly may. I will do my best to answer them--send it to my good email: aparker5@tulane.edu.

adam (adam), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 22:54 (twenty years ago) link

Persephone, not "Penelope".

N. Ron, Wednesday, 11 June 2003 23:20 (twenty years ago) link

Sorry. Drunk.

adam (adam), Thursday, 12 June 2003 12:40 (twenty years ago) link

four months pass...
This would have been so much better without the pointless CGI kung fu scenes.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 19 October 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link

The only CGI-fu is the Neo vs many Smiths brawl in the city park, right? An interesting exercise- the CGI is so close to being totally believable but still spottable. I thought the (famous) shot of Neo spiking the pole and accelerating around it was exactly what the whole CGI bizness was for, and wanted more like that.

rob geary (rgeary), Sunday, 19 October 2003 05:30 (twenty years ago) link

I have no problem with CGI- in fact, can't wait to see human mechs vs squid-machines in part three- but what I loved about Matrix 1 was the "authenticity," the fact that like good HK kung-fu we were really seeing the actual actor person whipping out some astonishing (wire-aided) moves. Once you realize the entire person is fake, it sort of takes that aspect away. There are different pleasures to full CGI characters instead, I suppose.

rob geary (rgeary), Sunday, 19 October 2003 05:31 (twenty years ago) link

six months pass...
saw a good chunk of it last night on cable. favorite line is when keanu decides to kiss the french guy's babe.

"Wait. OK."

AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 7 May 2004 14:53 (nineteen years ago) link

738 takes that took

stevem (blueski), Friday, 7 May 2004 14:56 (nineteen years ago) link

It took me an extraordinarily long time to figure out what the hell that sentence was supposed to mean, stevem

TOMBOT, Friday, 7 May 2004 15:30 (nineteen years ago) link

It's an Underworld song title if you look at it right.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 7 May 2004 15:59 (nineteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
Just an observation - did anyone else notice that you can totally see through Persephone's dress at the right times in the movie? And that she's not wearing anything else? Like, I can tell exactly what pattern she shaves. I could've sworn I mentioned this before on a Reloaded thread, but I can't seem to find it, so just thought I'd share now.

Girolamo Savonarola, Friday, 28 May 2004 21:17 (nineteen years ago) link

*FURIOUSLY RENTS RELOADED*

Leee's a Simpson (Leee), Friday, 28 May 2004 21:40 (nineteen years ago) link

I saw this movie 200 times on a 5.5-story IMAX screen and noticed nothing. GS you are simply toying with us.

adam (adam), Friday, 28 May 2004 21:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, it was really noticable on the big screen (though, admittedly, my girlfriend was the first one to notice). I watched the DVD, expecting either for them to have edited it out (re Mulholland Drive) or that the quality wouldn't have been enough to see it. But sure enough, it's still there in full glory.

Girolamo Savonarola, Friday, 28 May 2004 21:46 (nineteen years ago) link

(xpost) Hold on, lemme see if I can give you some exact timecode for the DVD...

Girolamo Savonarola, Friday, 28 May 2004 21:47 (nineteen years ago) link

SCREEN CAPS HOMEZ

Leee's a Simpson (Leee), Friday, 28 May 2004 21:50 (nineteen years ago) link

1:13:14 (give or take a few seconds)
1:13:41 ( " " " " " " )
1:14:21 ( " " " " " " )
1:14:24 ( " " " " " " )
1:14:30 ( " " " " " " )
1:14:38 ( " " " " " " )
1:14:43 ( " " " " " " )
1:15:07 ( " " " " " " )
1:15:13 ( " " " " " " )

Girolamo Savonarola, Friday, 28 May 2004 21:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Basically, from after the kiss scene to when the chateau fight begins, just keep your eyes on her crotch with a decent sized screen. Shouldn't be that hard to spot if you're looking for it.

Girolamo Savonarola, Friday, 28 May 2004 22:01 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.savonarolamustburn.com/picture1.jpg

I've also noticed that timecode can vary between different DVD players, so be wary of that. But yeah, this screencap is among the better ones I could get.

Girolamo Savonarola, Friday, 28 May 2004 22:23 (nineteen years ago) link


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